Skip to main content
Normal View

Joint Committee on Infrastructure and National Development Plan Delivery debate -
Wednesday, 23 Sep 2026

Progress of the National Development Plan Sectoral Investment Plans for Housing, and Water Services and Quality: Discussion

Today's meeting is split into two sessions. In the first, we will meet officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to engage on the progress made under the national development plan, NDP, sectoral plan running from 2025 to 2030. I am pleased to welcome from the Department, Mr. Garret Doocey, deputy secretary general, Mr. Paul Hogan, assistant secretary, Mr. Paul Benson, assistant secretary, Mr. Ronan Gallagher, assistant secretary and Mr. Alan Byrne, assistant principal. This session is scheduled to finish in 90 minutes because we have a second session afterwards in relation to water services.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity.

Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction. I remind members that this session is 90 minutes long. Members will each be afforded a six-minute speaking slot. I now invite Mr. Garret Doocey to make the opening statement.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I thank the committee for the invitation to discuss progress since the publication of the housing NDP sectoral plan in December 2025. As the Cathaoirleach has said, I am joined today by a number of colleagues from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, including Mr. Benson, assistant secretary for the social housing division, Mr. Hogan, assistant secretary for the planning division, and Mr. Gallagher, assistant secretary for the affordable housing division. We are joined also by Mr. Byrne from the housing co-ordination unit in the Department.

The updated NDP is the most ambitious capital investment programme launched by the State. It will invest unprecedented amounts into critical infrastructure such as housing, water, energy and transport to meet the economic and social needs of people across the country. The NDP sectoral investment plan for housing was published in December 2025 and forms a crucial part of the implementation of Delivering Homes, Building Communities. It reflects the largest ever capital investment in housing and housing-related infrastructure and provides the framework through which national commitments are translated into delivery. The sectoral plan outlines a sample of significant NDP funded projects that we can update the committee on this afternoon. However, it is important to note that due to the nature of the housing programme, the Department typically reports at a programme level rather than individual project level in the housing area.

The plan is structured across around four core areas: social housing delivery; affordable housing delivery; housing infrastructure and activation; and a range of other capital programmes that support communities such as regeneration, adaptation, vacancy reduction and targeted housing needs. Since publication, significant progress has been made across each of these areas. The Department continues to work closely with local authorities, approved housing bodies, the Land Development Agency, infrastructure providers and the private sector to support housing delivery at scale. Record levels of investment continue to underpin housing delivery. The updated NDP allocates almost €25 billion to housing programmes between 2026 and 2030, while budget 2026 provided €5.19 billion in capital funding, which was also complemented by investment through the Land Development Agency and lending from the Housing Finance Agency, bringing the total capital funding for housing in 2026 to over €9 billion, with a further €2 billion in current expenditure housing supports. This investment is driving delivery across the sector. Between 2024 and quarter 1 of 2026, over 40,000 households were supported through social and affordable housing measures, including almost 22,000 social homes and more than 18,000 affordable purchase and rental supports. Investment also included €205 million allocated toward housing infrastructure in the housing activation office and €157 million allocated in 2026 for programmes supporting older people, people with disabilities and Traveller communities.

The increased investment is reflected in a strong housing pipeline. Planning permissions in the first half of 2026 were up 28% year on year. Commencements increased by more than 160% in the first eight months of this year compared to last and almost 38,000 homes were completed in the 12 months to the end of the first half 2026. Apartment delivery and permissions have strengthened in particular, while almost 19,000 commencement notices were lodged between January and July this year. Together, these indicators point to sustained momentum and increasing levels of housing activity across all tenures.

The Department remains focused on activating existing permissions, addressing viability constraints and supporting increased housing supply. Strong progress continues to be made in social housing delivery. Between July 2020 and March 2026, almost 60,000 social homes were added to the social housing stock, while more than 15,000 vacant properties were returned to productive use. In 2025, 9,090 new-build social homes were delivered, the highest annual level of social housing construction since the foundation of the State.

Delivery has continued positively into 2026, with first quarter output showing strong growth compared with the same period in 2025. The social housing pipeline remains substantial. At the end of March 2026, more than 23,000 social homes were progressing through design and construction, including almost 10,000 homes on site. The new single approval process introduced in January of this year is streamlining arrangements for local authorities and approved housing bodies and will support faster delivery. The requirement to adopt a standardised approach for all social housing projects through adoption of the design manual for quality housing and employers' requirements has now been embedded across the system. Standard internal layouts and CAD drawings are available to design teams. This is promoting a consistent approach nationally. It is decreasing the amount of time spent on reviewing proposals to achieve value for money. It is shortening detailed design phases and allows for a more efficient tender process.

Affordable housing delivery continues to expand. Over 24,000 starter home supports were delivered from 2021 to the end of the first quarter of 2026 through affordability schemes, including the first home scheme, cost rental supports, help to buy and the vacant property refurbishment grant. Last year alone, more than 17,700 starter home supports were delivered, representing an increase of almost 20% in the previous year. Cost rental delivery continues to grow, supported by a strong approvals pipeline and ongoing State investment.

Alongside social and affordable housing programmes, significant progress is being made through a range of other capital programmes funded under the housing sectoral plan. These programmes support adaptation grants for older people and people with disabilities, Traveller-specific accommodation, local authority retrofit programmes, vacancy and dereliction initiatives, homelessness supports, remediation programmes and the bringing back into use of vacant social homes. These investments are important because they maximise the use of existing housing stock, support vulnerable households and strengthen communities while also contributing to wider housing objectives.

To support strong delivery across all programmes, the Government is prioritising implementation of the Planning and Development Act 2024, the most significant reform of the planning system in a generation. The Act will streamline decision-making, reduce delays and provide greater certainty for housing and infrastructure projects. Phased implementation is continuing across the planning system. Alongside these reforms, the revised national planning framework provides a strategic basis for future growth. All local authorities have commenced the required variation processes to reflect updated housing growth requirements and population projections. When those processes conclude, local authorities have indicated that approximately 5,000 additional hectares of residentially zoned land will be available nationally. This is estimated to provide capacity for approximately 200,000 additional homes, subject to the completion of statutory processes. This represents a significant strengthening of the long-term housing pipeline and ensures that planning policy aligns with national housing objectives.

A major development since publication of the sectoral plan has been the continued work of the housing activation office and the establishment of the €1 billion housing infrastructure investment fund. The housing activation office provides a practical mechanism for aligning infrastructural investment with housing delivery. It brings together expertise from across government, including local authorities, and infrastructure agencies to identify and address barriers to housing development. The first call under the fund attracted 138 applications from across the country. In June, Ministers announced support for 82 of those projects under the first phase. These projects are expected to directly unlock lands with capacity for approximately 86,000 homes and indirectly unlock lands that could support a further 113,000 homes. The projects range from local infrastructure interventions in towns and villages to larger strategic projects capable of supporting housing delivery at scale in and around our five cities. The fund complements broader investment being made through transport, water and electricity infrastructure. It also works alongside programs such as the urban regeneration and development fund, now known as the towns and cities regeneration investment fund, which continues to support regeneration, public realm improvements and community infrastructure that underpin sustainable development. The housing activation office will continue to broaden its focus and develop future funding calls to maximise housing activation opportunities.

In conclusion, the progress made since publication of the housing sectoral plan demonstrates that the key foundations are being put in place to support increased housing delivery. Record levels of investment are supporting strong delivery across social and affordable housing programmes. Housing output indicators show a robust pipeline with growing completions, commencements and planning permissions. Planning reforms are progressing, additional zoned land is being brought forward and the housing activation office is helping to align infrastructure delivery with housing need. The housing infrastructure investment fund alone has the potential to unlock lands capable of supporting almost 200,000 homes through both direct and indirect activation, and together with continued investment across housing programmes, this provides a strong basis for delivery through to 2030. The mid-year progress report published in July 2026 outlines these developments in greater detail and has been provided to the committee. I look forward to engagement with members on the progress achieved to date and on the further actions required to support delivery through to 2030.

I thank Mr. Doocey for his opening remarks. Before I call the first speaker, Deputy Neville, I want to make a few remarks. I am saying it to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and every other key Department that will be coming before us on this topic in the coming weeks. We have a schedule of meetings arranged. We have started with this Department because it is probably the Department with the biggest amount of expenditure under the development plan. These remarks are for the benefit of not just this Department, but for others. This committee is the Committee on Infrastructure and National Development Plan Delivery. I reiterate the word "delivery". I do not want to hear about the plans in 2027, 2028 or 2029. They are published and different Oireachtas committees will be dealing with them.

We are charged with dealing with delivery, not future plans or intentions. We can all talk about how many are planned for next year, the following year and the year after and what will happen over the next three years. The Oireachtas committee on housing will deal with those issues. We are here to make sure what is being done on a year-by-year basis is being delivered. Mr. Doocey has given good information, but it is not as specific as we are looking for. We will be coming back with some requests for information. In the documentation we have received, Mr. Doocey has given a list of housing developments that have probably been completed in the last year, but those projects were probably ongoing for a number of years. We are dealing with the plan from 2025 or 2026, which is nearly over. We want to know precisely what the expenditure was, where did it go for 2025 and 2026 and what it actually delivered in those two years.

It is fine to say that a housing development of 300 houses was completed but maybe most of that was done over a three- or four-year period. We will be looking for information in relation to the expenditure in 2025 and 2026. It might have involved completing projects that were well under way. Perhaps some of the projects that Mr. Doocey mentioned were substantially developed during 2025 and 2026 or maybe they were just being finished off. We want to know what was done on a year-by-year basis. That is what our job is - delivery. We can all talk about future plans on another day. That is really the first thing I want to say across the board to every group that is coming in front of us. What did you actually achieve last year and what did you achieve this year to date? Leave aside the plans you have for next year and the following year - we will come back to them in due course - but we want to deal with the here and now. What is being delivered now? That is the message I am sending to all the groups that have major plans under the national development plan.

The Department of housing is different from a lot of the other Departments that come in because even though we are talking about housing, the vast majority of houses in Ireland are built by the private sector and not by the Department. If we are dealing with Uisce Éireann, a lot of that will be done and controlled at departmental level. You could say the same with infrastructure. In the case of some of the big rail plans, railway station upgrades or different infrastructural things like that, the Department is hands-on with them.

Could Mr. Doocey give us a ballpark figure on this? If he does not have it, he can send it on to us. It was mentioned that 40,000 houses were completed. How many were actually built by local authorities? From what I understand, the majority of houses in Ireland are built by the private sector and through the Part V process. The Government, the taxpayer and the public get approximately 35% of them. While there is massive housing delivery, it is being done by the private sector. If the private sector activity goes down, your number of Part Vs will go down. If it goes up, your number of Part Vs will go up. I am trying to get a fix on what was actually done by the Department directly or through the local authorities. How many were built last year and this year? Separately, how many were built by the approved housing bodies? I do not expect Mr. Doocey to have the full details of the key approved housing bodies. How many were built by the private sector? This is kind of a unique situation. For most of what is under Mr. Doocey's brief, the Department is not actually carrying out the work on the ground whereas other Departments might be. Could Mr. Doocey respond to that?

I am just saying this for the value and the benefit of groups that are coming before the committee in the next couple of weeks, such as the Departments that are coming in. We are into delivery. What was done last year and this year? My personal view is that the best indication of what will be done over the next three years is what was done last year or this year. You could have done nothing last year or this year and yet you have fantastic plans for the next five years. I prefer to see the track record in delivery in each of the Departments last year and this year. That can give us confidence about if what needs to be done in the coming years can be achieved. It is the best test of the national development plan. We will be looking at what has been done over the last two years, and that will give us confidence - or otherwise, depending on the Department - as to what will actually be achieved in the next few years. Mr. Doocey might respond to that. It probably is not the type of question he was expecting.

Mr. Garret Doocey

No, that is fine. I thank the Cathaoirleach. We will be able to come back with some detail. Mr. Benson might be able to come in on this in terms of the social programme. We will come back with more detail as requested via written procedure as well. On what is being delivered or activity on the ground in any given year, if you think of the housing programme, there is stuff that is commenced or starts in a particular year, stuff that is in construction in a particular year and homes that are completed in a particular year. All three of those give a sense of the activity. That is one comment I make in response to the Cathaoirleach's general opening framing of the request that will come into us.

The Cathaoirleach is absolutely right on the difference between the Department of housing and the Department of Transport, for example, when it comes to its oversight and delivery of particular projects which are within its direct bailiwick. Its Exchequer money funds the entirety of that particular programme. Our programme consists of direct Exchequer support to deliver homes through the social and affordable programmes. Other work that we are doing does not necessarily weigh heavy on the Exchequer in terms of support but includes the planning reforms that enable the private sector to crowd in, deliver and do what they do. The housing infrastructure investment fund, within my own team, funds infrastructure to enable delivery of both public and private homes as well. I accept that we are slightly different in that regard.

Within what we deliver in terms of our Exchequer moneys in our NDP sectoral plan, it funds building by local authorities and AHBs but also the development partnerships between local authorities and AHBs with the private sector to deliver homes as well. There is some nuance within the described Exchequer-supported direct delivery of homes as well. Mr. Benson might want to come in.

Mr. Doocey might send us a more detailed note because that is the topic we are hitting on - AHBs, Part Vs, private sector builds and local authority builds. The Department might send us the details so we can get a fix on the issue. As I said, the Department of housing is a little bit different. A lot of what is coming under housing is not strictly directly funded by the Department. The Department has to fund the local authorities or the AHBs which are doing the construction but the Department also has to fund the purchase of the houses through the Part Vs. We accept that as well. We will have a light conversation on it but I ask for a detailed information note on that so we can get a good fix in our own heads. I thank Mr. Doocey.

Mr. Paul Benson

I might put some more colour on that. Last year, approximately 36,000 homes were delivered in the country. A total of 25% of those, or just over 9,000, were social homes. That is the highest number ever built in the history of the State. Just over 50% were built by the approved housing body sector and just under half were built by the local authorities. I take the point about how the local authority build breaks down between Part Vs, turnkeys, development agreements and what the Cathaoirleach would probably be used to as traditional local authority builds designed by the employer through the tendering process, with contractors on site who are supervised by the local authority. That figure was just under 2,000 last year.

I will put some context on the social housing numbers and where we are currently at. As I said, the 9,090 or thereabouts last year was the highest figure in the history of the State, but it came from a base of 459 social houses in 2014. That is where we have come from. We grew that to 5,000 by 2020 and to over 9,000 by 2025. The target for this year is 10,200. We do not get into projections around exact numbers. Instead, we talk about trajectories and patterns. The trajectory is upwards in terms of social housing output. The trajectory is also upwards in terms of local authority build, which is the type of direct build the Cathaoirleach was talking about. We expect that number, which is just below 2,000 at the moment, to grow to 3,000 or 4,000 in future years.

I appreciate the question was just about delivery last year. I hope that gives some idea of the breakdown.

I will move on shortly to the first speaker. Mr. Benson said that 2,000 out of the 40,000 were direct build. That is about 5% or 6%. Obviously, we funded the AHBs. The witnesses can understand why we want to drill into the figures and know who is actually doing the building for the different categories. It will help our understanding of the situation.

Mr. Paul Benson

I will briefly make a point on that. Traditionally, local authorities were the only ones building social housing. That has obviously changed. There is Part V and developers who are prepared to provide public services in terms of current account and capital in terms of building. You have to sweat all of those potential delivery streams.

I have one last question. I apologise to Deputy Neville. A developer might have a plan to build and provide a certain number of homes under Part V but sometimes the local authority, through different schemes, can end up buying the entire estate from a private developer and it is not all under Part V.

Mr. Benson will understand the nuance. I walked into a new housing development being opened in Laois and the director of services told me it had started off as a private sector development but the council and the Department had actually bought the entire lot through three different schemes. It was not just a Part V one. Mr. Benson knows better than we do and can understand where we are coming from.

Mr. Paul Benson

I can but the Cathaoirleach will be aware of a programme for Government commitment to cease the practice of late-stage turnkeys, to buy in properties like that which start off as private sector development and end up as public ones and try to develop local authorities' own-build programmes. There will be further updates on that in the near future in that report.

I thank the officials from the Department of housing for coming in today. Huge progress has been made in the building of houses right around the country. I compliment the Department and the Minister, Deputy James Browne, on the work that has gone into it and the different supports that have come along in the last number of years. None of them was a silver bullet but all of them together are making a significant difference.

As the Cathaoirleach said, it is all about delivery and what has been done up to now. However, what does the Department expect to do this year? The officials have said that for the first half of the year the figures are very strong and looking well. It was 36,000 last year. Will it be over 40,000 by the year end? I know it is like looking into a crystal ball, but what would they expect for that? Last year 36,000 were built and it should be 40,000-plus this year and moving on next year. We need to get to somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 to be sustainable and to meet the demands of the nation. What are the bottlenecks that are holding that up? What do we need to do to remove those? Do we have a manpower issue? Is it to do with finance? Is it to do with a pipeline that is there? I am very interested to find out where the Department goes with that. Perhaps the officials might answer those first and I will have a couple of questions after that.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I might kick off and colleagues can come in as appropriate. In terms of overall numbers, as Mr. Benson said, the Department does not provide particular annual projections. The trajectory generally is positive and other institutions publish their forecasts out to year end. Again, I reiterate the trajectory is positive in that regard but the Department is not in the business of making annual projections or forecasts. There is a strong pipeline there. There is a lot of investment going in from the State. There has been increased private sector activity. Last year was up on the previous year and the trajectory is positive.

Going further, how do we step it up even more to address bottlenecks, etc.? One of the bottlenecks that is consistently identified by the development sector, be it public or private, is infrastructure bottlenecks. That is where the likes of the decision by the Government to establish the housing activation office and the NDP's allocation of €1 billion to the Housing Infrastructure Investment Fund come into play. They allow us to proactively address some of the local and strategic bottlenecks that are holding up development, meaning that zoned land is not necessarily serviced such that we can go in and actually fund particular projects to open up those lands for development. That is a positive step in terms of addressing one of the bottlenecks.

The Cathaoirleach has mentioned that the committee will be having these types of engagements with other Departments. Infrastructure bottlenecks are not just within the purview of this Department. The housing-enabling infrastructure sectors are energy, water and transport. We have secondees from each of those sectors within the housing activation office but we are also relying on our colleagues in those relevant Departments and agencies, their NDP sectoral plans, their delivery, and their projects and programmes because they will ultimately unlock land for us to deliver housing. There is a wider whole-of-government piece in terms of addressing some of those infrastructure bottlenecks, not just the Housing Infrastructure Investment Fund. The last time I appeared before the committee I made the point that it is a complement to, but not a substitute for, the wider NDP.

A range of issues affect the housing delivery sector. The Deputy mentioned finance. Earlier in the year Home Building Finance Ireland, HBFI, published a very interesting report, The Scaling Challenge, identifying some of the issues SME developers are facing in terms of access to finance, etc. Steps are being taken by colleagues across wider government to address some of that, but it is certainly an issue that has been flagged in recent analysis this year as well.

I am delighted to hear that the issues regarding finance are being looked at by other Departments because it is a serious issue. Developers are telling me that it costs them a fortune to get finances. At the end of the day, it is increasing their costs for the house, which in turn is increasing the price of the house for the couple or the family that want to buy.

Affordable housing is coming up a lot. I am not just talking about Offaly. My colleagues right across the country in Fianna Fáil are talking about issues that they have. There does not seem to be an awful lot and in some cases no affordable housing is available. What is the Department doing to make sure that happens?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I might ask my colleague Ronan Gallagher to come in on that.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

There are a number of schemes on that front such as affordable purchase. We also have cost rental schemes which provide affordable rental properties. We have the vacant and dereliction scheme, the grant for taking old properties back. Up to this point the delivery of these affordable units and indeed the cost rental has been primarily in the urban centres in the cities. The vacant property refurbishment grant, VPRG, has done an awful lot of heavy lifting in rural areas. The biggest counties in terms of drawdown for VPRG are Donegal, Cork and Mayo, precisely where we would like it to work.

I thank Mr. Gallagher for that. My question was on what the Department is doing to make sure that affordable houses are built around the country.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

This year, Tipperary was the last local authority area to come in with an affordable housing scheme. There is one in every county. There is no doubt that we will be doing more. We have schemes for next year as well.

We have HAP and help for people to rent homes. There are people who are able to qualify to get a mortgage four times their salary to buy a house. However, some people in the middle are stuck in an awful situation because they are renting houses at exorbitant rates. It is dead money which is going nowhere and they cannot get on the property ladder. They need that affordable house but we are very slow. We need to get this done at a quicker pace because otherwise a generation of people will be stuck in limbo. They will get to a stage in their lives where their kids are reared and they will not have the opportunity to buy a house. That needs to be done at a quicker pace.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The Deputy is right. The challenge is with the cost of actually delivering a house across the country. It does not differ very much whether it is Dublin, Longford or somewhere else. There is a small marginal difference, but, of course, the challenge is the affordability gap. We have schemes, including the affordable housing scheme that operates through the local authorities. Under the Affordable Housing Fund, €50,000, €100,000 or €150,000 is available to subvent the cost of affordable housing delivery. It gets transformed to an equity piece and allows people to make up that affordability gap. The Deputy is right that more needs to be done. We are spending a lot of money but-----

I have a question for Mr. Benson. He mentioned that 50% were AHBs for social housing and 50% were local authority. I am presuming most of those local authority houses are Part V, with a few of them built by local authorities themselves.

Mr. Paul Benson

Just under 2,000 were built by local authorities themselves. The rest came through turnkeys and Part V housing.

I thank the officials for coming in. I have a question on the unlocking of the various land banks. How much of that has gone towards affordable and social homes and how much of that has gone towards private developments?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I might answer initially and my colleagues might come in. As I said in response to Deputy McCormack's questions, we have the Housing Infrastructure Investment Fund and the projects that we are funding to unlock those lands that potentially could deliver up to 200,000 units. We are funding the projects to unlock the lands which are zoned. From a funding perspective, we are blind as to whether it is public or private. Mr. Gallagher has outlined the wide range of affordable measures available for local authorities and they will apply to those lands or could be applied to those lands.

Likewise, the social housing delivery requirements, whether it is Part V or local authorities having sites on some of those zoned lands we are opening up, would also be applicable, but I do not have a precise breakdown for that specific tranche of land.

How did the Department select the projects? What criteria were used to choose them?

Mr. Garret Doocey

We published the criteria that were set out for projects we were willing to fund and we can send them to the committee. The fundamental question was whether it was a public infrastructure project. All projects we are funding are identified in a relevant local development plan. They have been identified by elected members at the local level as being required to service lands the councils have zoned as suitable for housing. They were the fundamental eligibility criteria. There were some other subcategories, as the Senator can imagine, but they were the fundamental points.

Does it include things like community infrastructure?

Mr. Garret Doocey

We have funded some parks among the first 82 projects we are funding. The third criterion I should have mentioned, in addition to a project being public infrastructure and in the county development plan, is whether it is directly linked to the activation of housing. For example, the parks we are funding are directly linked to the activation of housing. The issue of social and community infrastructure the Senator referred to has come back from some of our engagements with local authorities now that we have announced the projects and are looking at their delivery. The theme of social infrastructure and how we ensure its delivery in tandem with the development of homes is a recurrent theme and we have to reflect on it and consider how to address it.

When we are canvassing and going around communities, it is a major issue. There are a lot of great new developments which were privately developed and sold to the private market, but there is no space for a crèche, potentially no bus stop and all those things, so people feel very ghettoised in developments, often on the outskirts of towns, and their quality of life is reduced. It is therefore important to consider.

Will the Department talk a little about dereliction and vacancy and what its efforts are in that area? It was touched on briefly, but perhaps the witnesses could go into a bit more detail on it.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I might hand over to Mr. Gallagher on that.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

Primarily on that front, there is a grant in place of between €50,000 and €70,000 available to people who buy a property-----

Yes, that now sits under the housing activation office. It has been around for a while.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

It sits on my side, which is affordable housing and viability, so it is about activating those properties.

Are there any efforts or plans to change the way that grant currently functions? People still need to have the money upfront and that is a barrier for some people as regards affordability.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

We have been asked to look at that and it is still under review because it is a kind of bridging loan and there are issues around that. At the moment, in many respects, our concern is that the scheme is too popular. We have received a huge number of claims. More than 14,000 have been approved and €350 million has been paid out. There is a huge amount of activity right across the country. I take the Senator's point about that barrier, but so far, in terms of the number of people applying to the scheme, it has not had a significant impact on the demand for the scheme.

It probably has not had an impact on the demand, but it affects who can access it. It might be a family home such as an old farmhouse on a property the family owns. It is about which people are benefiting and ensuring there is a more egalitarian approach to it for the drawdowns.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

It is a grant. People can buy the property and then the money is available for a whole series of works that have to be done in advance and vouched, as much for any reason as to ensure taxpayers' money is protected. It is a kind of control mechanism.

Do compulsory purchase orders by local authorities fall under Mr. Gallagher's remit as well?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

Yes.

What is his analysis of how successful they have been? Some counties do quite a good job of it and others have been a bit slower. Is there anything we can do to facilitate the-----

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

We have provided the local authorities with vacant housing officers to put the resources in for them to be able to focus on this full time. The Senator is right that there is a variation between the counties. There are various reasons for that variation. One is the nature of the vacancy from county to county or from local authority area to local authority area. The numbers and the localities change the dynamics. However, it is fair to say, looking back over the past ten years, performance has not been very good, but in recent years, there has been a real step up.

It is a complicated process. The local authorities try to engage with the property owners. They have all sorts of difficulties from property to property in identifying who owns the property. However, when they have that engagement, the first instinct is to try to bring them through to be able bring the property back into use, engaging with the owners about the various schemes and supports available, with CPO being a last resort as local authorities have to go through various legal processes for that. That makes it a slow process on the face of it, but there are a lot of moments after the first engagement on a CPO when houses get brought back into use and are not captured in final CPO figures.

I thank the witnesses for coming. Under the national development plan, will the Department remind the committee how much has been put aside for it until 2030?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Approximately €25 billion has been set aside for housing programmes. Our colleagues over water will speak about water.

Of that, how much was to be spent in 2026?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I will get the figure. It is approximately €5 billion in capital.

It is €5 billion in capital spending in 2026. We are almost in October. Does Mr. Doocey think that money will be spent?

Mr. Garret Doocey

As we said, there is a lot of activity in the housing programmes so we are relatively confident about them. It may have cropped up in this committee the last time I was here, or perhaps it was the committee on housing, that the housing infrastructure investment fund is only kicking off this year. Therefore, there may be an element that projects are only commencing and therefore the expenditure under it will take a bit of a natural stepped increase in the coming years. However, on the core housing programmes we are at full tilt.

Will a visible or transparent - sometimes the word "transparent" can be used negatively - tracker be sent to the committee where we can see how much money is being spent and where it is being spent? I am not just talking about the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage but across the sector. It is one thing coming to the other side that we are getting value for said money. I do not want money to be spent for the sake of it. There is that question. We can allocate funding - there is money in the economy - but can we spend it? That can be a difficulty.

Mr. Garret Doocey

Again, we will speak about some of the statistics mentioned in the opening statement and some of the detail Mr. Benson gave about social housing. We are delivering record levels of social housing right now. It is the highest level of social housing-----

That is why I want to pull the discussion away from housing a little and onto infrastructure. The housing activation office, even from my local perspective, has given significant funding, which I looked for, to Newbridge and Celbridge. It has designated funding for the road in Maynooth, to Naas around the harbour and in Leixlip to start the work to unlock new land up towards the Confey end. Money has been set aside, but it is about getting that money spent and ensuring the projects get delivered. That might not necessarily be the witnesses' challenge, but will it be a challenge for the people the Department is allocating the funding to?

Mr. Garret Doocey

There is always a challenge to ensure the money is used in as expeditious a manner as possible.

That is almost a separate question about them being able to spend it. We can talk about the Department's monitoring of value for money in that context and I want to come to that. Is the system working? The planning applications go in, an Bord Pleanála says "Yes", it can go ahead, and eventually - we were just talking about the snails in Celbridge - whatever local issue might come up will be dealt with, the money will be spent and the project will be built.

Mr. Garret Doocey

We would be happy, if we are just talking about the 82-----

Is the Department funding shovel-ready projects that will be done in the next two years?

Mr. Garret Doocey

What we have been doing, narrowing it down to the projects being supported by the housing infrastructure investment fund, is using the graphic. There are two ministerial chaired groups, the industry group and the delivery group. We used a graphic at the start of the programme that shows where the 82 projects are in the project life cycle, from approval gate, AG1 to AG3 to in construction. We will use that graphic as a means to ensure our accountability to the industry group and the delivery group to demonstrate the progress of those projects through approval gates to construction. We would be happy to provide that information to the committee on an annual basis and we will probably publish it as well so people can track the projects to see where they are going.

We want to learn from previous initiatives such as the LIHAF programme that commenced ten years ago-----

Yes, project solved.

Mr. Garret Doocey

-----and ensure that we get a speedier delivery across all of the projects. Obviously, issues arise in individual projects but as a whole, as a programme, we want to ensure that we get a speedier delivery.

Yes. I know that LIHAF had elements where it stalled, notwithstanding that.

On value for money, does the Department have oversight? Is there a team managing that aspect from the Department's side? Once again, I will cite the bridge in Celbridge, and the project is estimated to cost €50 million, then it goes to €60 million but the cost spirals and ends up costing €110 million. How did that happen?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Obviously, all of the projects that we are funding need to comply with the infrastructural guidelines. We are putting in place the appropriate governance and oversight structures around that. We have programme managers brought in from the agencies with actual project delivery track records behind them to assist us with our oversight of those projects and apply that value for money lens as regards what we are seeing coming back in to us.

The social element has been raised and we must ensure we have the amenities. Everyone has their own little place and I will use one as an example. Where we grew up, we have seen the estates continue to grow and we have not had the benefit. We grew up in suburban areas in historically small villages where the houses just kept being built and the population grew from 2,000 in 1968 to 20,000 in 1995 and now it is 60,000. How do we ensure we also get the amenities and facilities for those areas? How do we mitigate estate sprawl without underlying infrastructure like is already in larger towns? For example, we ensure we get funding for a place like the Wonderful Barn in Leixlip, with which the witnesses might be familiar? If that building was in a town like Portlaoise or Mullingar, which are big sizeable towns even on a footprint perspective, it might be easier to get URD funding, but because it is in Kildare there are a lot of competing towns of the same size and it does not necessarily get seen in the same way.

Mr. Garret Doocey

The Deputy has highlighted the benefits of plan-led development, which brings me nicely to Mr. Hogan.

And nicely to an answer to my question as I saw him whispering.

Mr. Paul Hogan

As the Deputy was talking, I was thinking of good planning. To be honest, that is where planning should come in because it is not just estate after estate. It should look at the whole and identify what is really important to be kept or highlighted, such as where the open space should be between the estates or for the whole area. In reforming the planning system, one of the things that we have done is introduce what we call priority area plans instead of local area plans. Where a development is taking place, you do a plan for that area. We have also taken zoning out of the priority area plans, so what happens at a county level is that it means the local planning process is not caught up in questions of zoning; it is caught up in questions of quality and how you do it right.

Yes, but we have all seen where an area becomes the next shaded area. I was a councillor for 15 years, and you know what happens with shaded areas. The problem is dereliction often happens at the centre of these small villages and towns. How is it possible that there was more going on in the area when it had a population of 2,000 than there is with 22,000 living there now? All too often that is an issue we are facing across the country. The centres are not actually being revamped by an increase in population. If anything, they become separated from where the conurbation originated from. With that, it is very important that we focus on local authorities pushing to invest in town and village centres to reduce dereliction, but that is a wider topic we can probably delve into.

On the topic of dereliction, it is far easier to build on a greenfield site, so what role does the Department play in regenerating the original core town area?

Mr. Garret Doocey

We do have a fund available to support local authorities for exactly that purpose. The fund was previously known as the urban regeneration and development fund and it is now called the towns and cities regeneration investment fund. We announced a list of projects across the country the other week, and every local authority benefited. There already is an existing fund to try to rejuvenate and regenerate the centres of towns and cities. From our perspective, there is a similar fund for the smaller villages in rural areas from the Department of Rural and Community Development. There are funding mechanisms available from our Department.

Speaking to the wider social infrastructure piece, I think we all acknowledge it is a little bit disparate, in that there are sports capital grants, Y grants, Z grants, etc. However, for the regeneration and rejuvenation of town centres, there is a funding pot within the Department of housing.

Does the Department of heritage play a separate role in that? How does the Department link in with that?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Heritage is part of the Department.

Mr. Paul Hogan

On that, our Department jointly runs the town centre first initiative with the Department of Rural and Community Development. There are town regeneration officers now in every local authority area. They are empowered to engage the community and seek sources of funding from multiple streams. We have got headline funds in both Departments but there is also a range of other things.

I thank the witnesses for coming here today. I want to ask a number of questions, focusing first on the housing infrastructure fund. Obviously, 56 projects did not make it. Will there be another call in relation to that and when?

On LIHAF, what lessons have been learned? We know that LIHAF was a bit of a mixed bag. In particular, local authorities were critical of the length of time it took to draw down capital. Will the witnesses tell the committee how this new fund is leaner and more efficient? How will the Department ensure it will deliver what it says it will, and how will it measure that?

Mr. Garret Doocey

In terms of lessons learned from call 1 and future calls, the Deputy is right that there were 50 or so projects in that 138 projects came in and 82 were funded. What we would say is that all the eligible projects got funded. The projects that did not get funded did not meet the eligibility criteria. The lesson learned is meet the eligibility criteria. I am being a little bit glib there but that is effectively our key lesson from that why projects did not get funded or were not accepted.

What lessons have been learned in relation to how this fund will operate in comparison with LIHAF?

Mr. Garret Doocey

In terms of lessons that have been learned more broadly and what we hope will be the difference between LIHAF and the housing infrastructure investment fund, HIIF, as I said in response to Deputy Neville or one of the earlier interventions, one of the key lessons learned and one of the key underpinnings and rationales for the establishment of the housing activation office within the Department was the need for better co-ordination and to bring the various infrastructure providers together in the same room, office or unit to give an holistic whole of public infrastructure perspective from the outset as regards what type and level of infrastructure is required to ultimately service the lands that are being opened up. That is one lesson and a very important lesson.

The second lesson that we have taken on board, and it is linked to the first, is that we have brought in project management and project delivery expertise into the actual office that oversees the fund. There is a mixture of civil servants and seconded experts from the likes of Uisce Éireann, ESBN, TII, the NTA, etc., who bring their skills and experience in terms of the delivery of projects and which skills have been brought in-house and are assisting the local authorities in terms of their delivery of the projects on the ground.

On the co-ordination piece, it allows us, or we would expect and we hope it would allow us, to work with the local authorities in a much more joined-up fashion. For example, we will have a workshop in November whereby we are bringing in all of the project managers from the local authorities who are responsible for the 82 projects, we are bringing in the ESBN that has stood up a team to support all of those projects within its organisation, while Uisce Éireann has done similar and we are bringing its team in. With Iarnród Éireann, we have a single point of contact because five or six of the projects have an interface with the rail network. We are bringing them all into the one room, the one workshop from the outset so that we are all on the same page, understand the roles and responsibilities and we are all working towards the delivery of the one objective, which is to get these projects delivered as quickly as possible.

As I said, there are 82 projects. As anyone who has been involved in projects will know, there will be ups and downs in some of them but we think we have definitely drawn some key lessons from the LIHAF experience and we hope to see an improved delivery rate in terms of the HIIF projects.

LIHAF contained an explicit affordability clause and I note that it has not been included in HIIF.

I hope Mr. Doocey might be able to tell the committee why that is not in the HIIF. Also, with regard to affordable housing more generally there is the removal of all of the different supports counted as affordable housing. There were 935 affordable homes built last year out of a target of 2,100. Will the witnesses tell the committee if there is a reason, from an infrastructure point of view, only 935 were delivered? As committee members that is one of the biggest issues we are coming across for people who are above and below a threshold, if that makes sense. There was no affordable housing directly delivered in Dublin last year.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I will ask Mr. Gallagher to answer the question on affordable delivery numbers last year. I go back to the question of the LIHAF versus the HIIF and affordability. There were no affordable schemes at the time of LIHAF as we recognise them now. Hence there were specific requirements introduced as part of the LIHAF programme, which we do not need to do because we have generally applicable affordable measures now. We have been very clear, as has the Minister, that the purpose of the HIIF is to fund public infrastructure that opens up zoned lands to deliver homes, public or private.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The question was on affordable, but I am not sure about the target reference of 2,100.

It was 935 delivered.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The Deputy had the impression that was short of target.

The target was 2,100 under Housing for All. I am talking about 2025.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

Housing for All ran until 2024, so that was the new plan. There was an overlap.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

There is an element of the pace. What we have in the new plan in terms of overall affordability is 15,000 interventions per year. That is an average. Year to year and project to project there will be dips.

Have they targets?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

We do not have individual targets. We have overall delivery of 15,000 affordable homes.

They cannot say how many affordable purchase homes will be directly delivered each year. They can only say 15,000.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

Yes, that includes cost rental, the vacancy grants, cost rental by the Land Development Agency, cost rental by affordable housing bodies, affordable purchase by the local authorities, help to buy and the first homes scheme, which is an equity mortgage. As a combination of all those schemes and interventions, the ambition is to reach at least 15,000 per annum. We will do that, but within it will be variations year to year as to what the precise mix of that will be.

They have no idea from year to year of how many directly delivered affordable purchase homes-----

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

We have €150 million in the affordable housing fund. That is primarily to support affordable purchase. The budget is dependent on what the local authorities bring forward in terms of plans and the timing of those schemes. Quite a number of these are mixed tenure schemes and they will go hand in hand with social housing, affordable purchase and cost-rental schemes. It will vary from year to year, but it is wholly dependent on the projects that come to us. We assess it from a value for money and a housing need perspective with the help of the Housing Agency and then the funding is issued. We are spending our budget every year. The challenge over the coming years is to maximise what we get in return for that budget.

However, they cannot tell me how many units that will directly deliver annually, other than the 15,000 that includes grants, the first home scheme, shared equity and everything.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

It was 920 last year. We expect to beat that this year in the context of affordable purchase. However, in September because of the timeframe I do not know what the precise number will be. It will easily be more than that target going into next year, depending on decisions we make in the context of the overall budget allocations and some decisions on projects that we still have to approve. The numbers are published quarterly and annually once they come in, by scheme and by county. We have full visibility on that.

I will follow on from that. I have the same figures, with approximately 900 out of 2,100, which is significantly less than the target for newly built affordable homes. It is the same story with social housing where targets were missed by almost 1,000 homes. Obviously a lot of people would argue that those targets were nowhere near ambitious enough to begin with. Why are those targets being missed? We are talking about 900 directly built affordable homes. It seems a very low number, given the extent of the housing crisis and people who are crying for these schemes in their local communities given how expensive housing is. Why is it at such a low level?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

It is coming from a very low base, so we are trying to get it up to a point at which it meets the type of need the Deputy is talking about. There is a run-in to that, and we are in that space. We are coming from a position where we were building hardly any houses. These schemes are new and take a little time to bed in. We had almost 1,000 last year. We will beat that next year. We are supplementing that with more than 3,000 grants for the vacant and derelict properties. We have the first home scheme. We have significant numbers of over 2,300 for cost-rental units as well. In combination last year there were approximately 7,000 affordable homes. That is not including the first home scheme or the help-to-buy supports. This year I expect we will beat that totality of 7,000 across those schemes. In doing so we will expend the capital allocation that has been given to us. We are trying to extract as much as we can from what we have been given.

It is particularly an issue in rural counties. In my constituency in east Galway, we have a scheme in development in Athenry. Further schemes are planned in Athenry, but it will be some time before other areas get affordable housing schemes. The requirement for a 15% affordability gain is being constantly cited as a barrier in more rural counties when it comes to delivery of affordable housing. When we had the County and City Management Association before the committee, it referenced that as a huge barrier in the more rural counties. This was feedback that was being given to the Department. Are there plans to adjust this aspect of the scheme to make affordable housing more viable in those rural counties, and more affordable in general?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The challenge is the gap in what it costs to deliver a house in rural areas and the gap between that and what the market is. That is what we try to bridge through the affordable housing fund and the grants and subventions available up to €50,000 or €75,000.

The prices are not based on what it costs to build. The prices are based on the market value of the property for affordable housing. Am I right in saying that?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The price of what, sorry?

The price of the home. In the affordable purchase scheme, there is a discount from the price that has to be paid up front. That is based on the market value of the property rather than what it costs to build the home.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

Correct. It is called an open-market value, and it is a way of ensuring equality across the schemes from one development to another. There are occasions when the cost of build is above the open-market value, so it is more expensive to build a house than it would be in the market. There are other occasions where the open-market value is above. It is rarely a huge amount above, but it is a margin above.

Mr. Gallagher is saying that the majority of the time it costs more to build than what the market value is.

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

It varies. I would not know the breakdown of that. The idea of the open-market value is that that is the value of the property on the market. When the purchaser buys it, that is the reference point for the value of that asset going forward. Under the scheme, the local authorities with State support take an equity investment in that property, which helps to bridge the cost of the mortgage people take out. That equity stays with the house for as long as the person-----

I understand that.

In the scheme in Athenry, where I am from, which is going ahead at the moment, the prices are advertised from €345,000 to €395,000 and then €425,000 to €475,000 if you want to actually own the home outright. Speaking to young first-time buyers in my community, it is out of reach to them. It does not actually benefit anybody who is currently locked out of home ownership because there are second-hand homes on the market for less than those prices. It is obviously welcome to have homes built, but it is not really hitting the people who are currently locked out of home ownership whom it needs to hit. Is that a consideration the Department is looking at? Is it looking at modifying that scheme to make it more affordable?

Mr. Ronan Gallagher

The truth of the matter is that we have an allocation which is substantial but still limited and therefore the schemes are designed to try to extract, develop and deliver as many housing units as we can within the parameters. The Deputy points to an issue about the demand being greater than supply. That is the nutshell of the entire housing issue and why we have serious pressure. We are absolutely mindful of it but there is also a limitation of the possible level of State intervention. We keep it under review. While the schemes are successful and there is significant activity, going up over time from a low level, we need to be mindful of the extent to which there are still cohorts in our society who are not able to access housing and how we address that. It is not always about purchasing. It is also about affordable, sustainable rental properties too. The focus is on homes, part of which is home ownership but also rental opportunities.

It is fair to say we need a lot more ambition from Government when it comes to housing. I have a question about the housing infrastructure investment fund. The witnesses might not have the details here, but they can come back to me on it. One of the projects that was funded through that fund was the Athenry relief road, but only a section of that road was funded rather than the full road. It did not include the bridge works that would be required as part of that project, as was referenced in the document that the Department put out at that time. It is a piecemeal approach to infrastructure that is not really practical. I do not know if the witnesses have detail on that, but could they come back to me on why the full length of that proposed road was not looked at, as well as the bridge works that are supposed to be part of it?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I will come back to the Deputy about that. Phases of that road were funded under the Department of Transport's regional local roads division and we are funding the bit that was not funded under that, which is the difficult bit, with the bridge.

The Department is funding only part of it.

Mr. Garret Doocey

That is not my understanding. I will come back to the Deputy in writing on that.

I thank the witnesses for joining us. If I look at one of the opening pages on the report, everything is green, everything is increasing and we are moving in the right direction. Do the witnesses think, based on our capacity delivered, that we could be any more ambitious than we are at the moment in our goals or objectives?

Mr. Garret Doocey

The ambition of Government to deliver 300,000 additional homes by 2030 is hugely ambitious and a step up. Mr. Paul Benson mentioned some of the figures about the social housing programme. The step up in delivery there has been impressive already but we need to go further. Affordable housing has gone from a standing start to where it is and it is going upward. Notwithstanding the questions from Deputies earlier on, the trajectory over the next couple of years is all upward on the affordable side of the house. That is the Government's stated ambition for targets, then there is the suite of measures that have been introduced by the department of planning and forwarding-----

I refer to capacity to deliver more than our current objective. We will be criticised for not being ambitious enough. Do the witnesses think we could deliver more than our current ambition and do we have the capacity for it?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Right now, we are looking to meet the ambition that has been set by Government, which is in itself a challenge. If one situates our sectoral challenge in meeting the target that has been set by Government, of 300,000 additional homes, along with the challenge that the committee will hear from the other infrastructure sectors which will come in to the committee in the coming weeks, as per the Cathaoirleach's opening comments, as a Government, we have a massive range of infrastructure projects and programmes in the next five years to deliver at the same time so there is a capacity constraint in the construction sector, financing and funding. There is always a constraint with funding, notwithstanding the huge amounts of Government money that have been put into it. The Deputy is right to highlight the issue of capacity being a factor. I think it will be a theme that the Deputy will hear in other engagements he will have in coming weeks with other sectors too. What we have been set is a hugely ambitious target. We are on a trajectory. It is our ambition to meet that target, but there is a job of work ahead of us.

From an activation perspective, and the Chair talked about delivery, whether it is from pre-planning or once planning is approved to actual completion, what are the numbers looking like and what trajectory is that going on?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Numbers as in?

The delivery timeframe.

Mr. Garret Doocey

Mr. Paul Hogan might come in on this. I will comment first. There was media coverage last week, for example, about a Central Bank quarterly bulletin. I think the reportage was describing planning as being a significant increase in time delay. When you read the report, that was not what the report itself was necessarily stating. It broke down into three phases. One was application to permission, then permission to commencement, and then commencement to completion. It was finding that the increases in time being taken to complete projects were in those latter two stages. There is definitely a body of work there both for my unit, the housing activation office and for the Department generally to get under the bonnet and find out what those steps are and what the delays are from when you have a permission to getting on site, then what is delaying things on site. The report posited a number of potential reasons but did not go into detail, nor was it analysing in particular those details. There is something for us to focus on there. Does Mr. Hogan want to address any of that?

Mr. Paul Hogan

Sure. There were two reports last week that more or less reached the same conclusion. One was from Central Bank and the other from the ESRI. They were saying that the planning system has largely stayed the same. The median time in the analysis for getting through planning is roughly six months for housing projects. The post-planning period, from after planning has been granted to activation on site, was typically twice as long and getting longer, and had worsened over the period, which is roughly from 2017 and 2018 to present. One of the reasons cited was to do with connections on site, to do with infrastructure and obviously the housing activation office will be tackling that. It speaks to a bigger macroeconomic scenario where to get started on site with a development, you need access to finance and conditions have to be right for that. That is a wider picture that naturally the Central Bank would be concerned about.

Once site works begin, are we seeing an increased pace of delivery at that point? If the hump and problem area at the moment is between post-planning and actual commencement of construction, are we getting faster timeframes from commencement of construction to completion?

Mr. Garret Doocey

There are two aspects here. One would naturally hope to see increased adaptation of modern methods of construction on site leading to increased delivery times once on site. One of the reports, the Central Bank report of last week, seemed to be indicating that commencement to completion has also increased over the 2017 to 2025 period. It was positing a number of potential reasons for that. It was not going into particular detail. I do not think it was really looking at the detail of it. That is a bit of a contradictory story, because one would naturally assume that increased adaptation of modern methods of construction would lead to improvements on site, but we have a report that is suggesting that once on site-----

Is it the case that because of modern methods of construction efficiencies and reducing the time, we are seeing a reduction on one side, but more problems are arising to expand the timeframe?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I would not like to speculate. Has Mr. Hogan any insights?

What I am trying to get at is from the perspective of a timeframe delivery. MMC and what it does in terms of prefabrication, safety, quality and so on should also be expediting delivery. Why is that not happening?

Mr. Paul Hogan

If you look at the reports of the very large house builders that can benefit from economies of scale, they are deploying MMC to a greater extent.

It is economies of scale. How are we going to deliver more houses in smaller villages and towns that are not at that scale? I look at the suburbs of Dublin now and see these large construction sites and so on but I do not see that level of activity in rural towns and villages. How are we going to activate that?

Mr. Paul Hogan

I think more traditional forms of construction and traditional housing are taking place.

Does Mr. Hogan have any concerns around viability?

Mr. Paul Hogan

Obviously, viability is an issue across the board.

It is improving in the more densely populated areas now, though.

Mr. Paul Hogan

Yes, I think there is a sweet spot for viability.

I know we have housing activation and other schemes but do we need to do more to try to stimulate more housing in smaller rural towns and villages?

Mr. Paul Hogan

There is a water services infrastructure initiative now that will enable wastewater to be delivered on site by a developer, so a developer providing infrastructure can now deliver smaller services-----

Is that really unearthing? Is it really moving the dial in terms of delivery?

Mr. Paul Hogan

It certainly can assist.

Is the Department seeing a material difference compared to 12 months ago in that whole space?

Mr. Paul Hogan

It is very early days to have monitored that scheme and seen results. It was only within the last year that that initiative-----

Is it not the case that we are in a housing emergency and we need to see these things providing results pretty quickly? If they are not, do we need to do more and put another layer in to ensure that where there are areas that are not seeing that delivery, that information comes back to this committee for us to discuss it and try to determine what more we can do?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Fundamentally, there is no silver bullet to a lot of these issues. There are lots of different responses that are either initiated, examined or already under way. One issue in relation to smaller builders is that MMC needs the economies of scale the Deputy mentioned. As highlighted by the Home Building Finance Ireland, HBFI, report earlier this year, there is a question of how you get those smaller tier 2 or 3 builders building more homes. How do you scale them up as corporations, companies and so on so that they begin to develop a scale? I am not suggesting that they all immediately float up to tier 1 but it is a question of how they are supported through, for example, access to finance to begin scaling up themselves and delivering more homes. They themselves will then develop efficiencies of scale proportionate to the levels they are operating at, which should be higher than they are currently operating. There will always be differences in terms of the capabilities of different actors in the home building sector.

I have one final question. Considering everything referred to at the start, is there any area of particular concern around delivery that the witnesses would like to raise with us that could become problematic between now and their next visit to the committee?

Mr. Garret Doocey

I would not like to highlight a particular concern.

Then give three.

Mr. Garret Doocey

A particular focus would be on ensuring that we have co-ordination across the housing-enabling infrastructure sectors of energy, water and transport so as to enable delivery of housing at scale across the country.

I have two final questions. On workforce capacity, we mentioned constraints. We are hearing about workforce capacity and about people in the construction industry leaving to work abroad. What do the witnesses think about that? Is it real? Have they a measure or feel for it? I know that is why we need more MMCs but we get the impression that the workforce may be not there to meet the capacity that is required.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I will comment on two aspects of that. A lot of analysis has been undertaken at a whole-of-government level, which I believe is led by colleagues in the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, although I could be wrong about that. It looks at the workforce capacity requirements to deliver on the NDP in its entirety across all sectors. To refer back to my earlier comments, we have a huge amount of investment planned over a short period of time, so we need to consider the workforce that is needed and what steps can be taken. This goes back two or three years and perhaps even NDP 2021 in relation to apprenticeships, etc. A lot of good work is being undertaken at that whole-of-government level. Within particular sectors, similar analysis and initiatives have been undertaken. The transport sector is one that springs to mind.

I would say there is a different perspective in the home building sector. There are stakeholders in that sector who say that they have capacity to step up and deliver more. This relates to certain companies are active in the space. As the Cathaoirleach mentioned, if we get that increased adoption of MMC, it should reduce the overall manpower requirements and assist with that capacity limit or constraint that may exist. There are different messages but it is definitely an area that requires attention.

We just discussed the time between planning, commencement of construction and the actual construction period. What do the witnesses understand is the time delivery between, say, a development of apartment blocks versus houses? To put it simply, if there is a development in Portlaoise for 100 houses, the developer can build the first 30 straight away. The developer then gets funds from their sale to build the next 30. With an apartment block, however, the developer cannot sell the first one until the last is completed. It must impact the financing but how does it impact the timing of delivery? People will get all of them in one go rather than some this year and the rest next year.

On a related issue, nobody can put a finger on why there is a bit of a delay after a project starts. The witnesses said it might be finance. Do they have any knowledge of developers who get planning permission but have no intention of building and instead want to sell on the planning permission? Is there much of that happening to the witnesses’ knowledge?

Mr. Paul Hogan

There is a mix of motivations for securing planning permission. What we have noticed in recent years is a higher proportion of what is getting granted being built. There was always a gap between the number of permissions versus the number of commencements and completions. In recent years, the gap has narrowed and the curves have converged. This year and last, we have seen very high levels of completion compared to permissions, for example. It means we need to get more permissions into the system. It is happening and the numbers are remaining strong.

There will always be a degree of speculation but the residential zoned land tax is a method of addressing that because if land is zoned and serviced and can get planning, people are penalised if they sit on it. Some of the house builders have been positive about that because it has created a degree of movement in the land market and put sites and land into the hands of those who will develop.

This might be a question for Revenue but has much been collected on that residential zoned land tax? I am not asking for the figures but the officials must have an idea.

Mr. Paul Hogan

I think it was about €60 million last year. The liability was twice that and I believe half was deferred liability because people were active. They are moving into planning and getting on site. That is demonstrating the effectiveness of the measure.

I know that the housing assistant payment, HAP, does not relate to construction but the Department spends a lot of money on it. How much is the ballpark figure? How many years paying HAP would it take to have the house built and owned by the State? What is the metric around whether the Department builds more or you just pay more HAP? HAP is a current item and does not add a single house to anything. It is money for the owners - the landlords. The Department must have talked this out. With HAP, once the year has gone, the money is down the drain or it is gone into somebody else's pocket. What does the Department think about that issue?

Mr. Paul Benson

I will address that. It is not directly my area but I am familiar with it. We have HAP, the rental accommodation scheme and leasing. We subsidise a huge number of households in the private rental sector. The State really does not have any choice but to do that because those people have nowhere else to go. The ambition is to drive as much new build social housing as possible and get as many of those people moved out and into permanent public housing. That is happening. There are quite a number of people moving from HAP every year into new social housing or houses that become vacant in the stock. It is not as quick as we would like but the numbers we are delivering under social housing and the trajectory of growth mean we can do more every year. We need to get to a point where the number of tenancies available is greater than the number of people coming into the social housing system. We are not quite there yet but we are getting a lot closer because between new builds and casual vacancies, we are getting to 14,000 to 15,000.

Will Mr. Benson go through that again? I have not heard that before.

Mr. Paul Benson

There are people who become eligible for social housing every year. For others, obviously, life happens - they pass away, they move on, they get work or whatever and they are no longer eligible. There is an increasing-----

Is Mr. Benson saying that there are more going off the social housing list than coming onto it?

Mr. Paul Benson

We need to get to that point where we are actually accommodating people and the number coming in is exceeded by the tenancies we are creating, tenancies that are upgraded to a new build or a casual vacancy in the existing stock, which runs at 2% or 3% of a stock of 200,000-odd. If we can grow that number to the 12,000 target that the Government has set, that would be about 18,000 public housing tenancies a year, which would exceed the number coming into the system. That would mean we could make progress and start winding down some of that HAP, rental accommodation scheme, RAS, leasing and people in homeless accommodation.

We are getting close to that and considering where we have come from, we have made huge progress. I quoted the numbers earlier. Fewer than 500 houses were built 12 years ago for public housing. That is why we have so many people in private rented accommodation. The stock just was not built for ten years and we all know the reasons. The State did not have the money. Huge steps have been taken to address that but it will take a long time to unwind. The people in HAP, RAS and leasing need the State's support. It is essential to continue it.

We will leave the HAP to the housing committee. How many one-off houses were built in rural Ireland on average last year and this year? It was not mentioned but it is probably a small number. Where are we on that?

Mr. Paul Hogan

It is between 5,000 and 6,000, I think.

Out of the approximately 40,000 that are being built, it is a significant enough number.

Mr. Paul Hogan

It is, and it has been consistently.

That is good in its own right for those in rural areas.

I might just make a request, if I may. I would like to be pointed towards somebody in the Department of housing about an issue. There is a place called Ringfort in Rathmolyon in Meath. Individuals paid a deposit for a house but now the builder of those houses is looking for €80,000 more before he will let them move in. If there was somebody in the Department who could contact me just to discuss that at a later stage, I would appreciate that.

If I had built a house in Meath ten years ago, it would have taken me two years to build it. If I were to build it now, it would take me four years to build it. Why has the length of time it takes to build a house in Ireland doubled, according to the Central Bank?

Mr. Garret Doocey

It is a topic we were discussing a few minutes ago. The Central Bank analysis published last week identified three phases in the life cycle of house construction: the planning application to planning permission stage; the permission to commencement stage; and then the commencement to completion stage. It focused on the latter two phases as the primary drivers of the increase in time the Deputy identified in the overall completion of a house. There was some increase in the planning stage but it was very marginal in the overall context. It was from three to four months to four to six months.

The greatest increase in time in any of those phases was on-site, which I found a little surprising. The report, as I outlined a few minutes ago, posited a number of potential reasons. It did not go into detail. It had not done and nor was it set out to do the underpinning analysis of what was driving that. Across both phase 2 and phase 3, it covered matters like access to finance and infrastructure blockages like utilities. On the on-site element, it discussed matters such as construction capacity, which came up in a conversation earlier. It is an interesting report but it focused on the latter two phases.

If one reads the media reports, they firmly point the figure at the planning side.

Mr. Garret Doocey

If one reads the report, it is the latter two phases.

The latter two phases comprise a significant matter that needs to be researched by the Department of housing. The on-site element is slower now. One would imagine that, with improved building practices and so on, it would be faster now than it was but it is actually slower at the moment.

Mr. Garret Doocey

I agree. It is an interesting aspect of that analysis. It is something we will have to get under the bonnet of and have a look at.

It has a practical aspect. If the time it takes to build a house is doubled, that physically slows down the delivery of houses.

We also have some of the slowest planning, tendering, procurement, licensing and judicial review systems in the whole of the European Union. We have had a large number of groups at the committee which said that in all of those aspects, we are among the slowest. Those elements are in the Government's bailiwick. In other words, the Government controls all elements either through the legislative process by which they operate or the resourcing process by which they are staffed to be able to fulfil the case. Why is that?

Mr. Garret Doocey

We cannot speak to some of those elements in terms of procurement and so on, but with regard to planning, for example, which is one of the areas the Deputy mentioned, a huge body of reform has been undertaken over the past few years. There are a significant number of new initiatives that will and are beginning to yield benefit already, I would argue, and definitely will over the next 12 to 24 months. The Government has actively sought to identify and address those issues. Mr. Hogan may speak in more detail.

Mr. Paul Hogan

On the planning side, it has been much maligned. I mentioned an ESRI report that essentially corroborated what the Central Bank said last week. That was published on 30 August. It highlights the consistency - the planning process takes roughly four to six months for the vast majority of developments. I was talking to someone from Dublin City Council last week who said 83% of all applications were granted within eight weeks. The bulk of the planning system operates. There are over 30,000 applications a year and the vast majority are granted within statutory timelines.

I think it is larger, more significant developments such as housing infrastructure that get caught up in controversy. There tend to be a lot of people opposed and they have used all means available to object. Part of the reform we have undertaken over the past five years, which we are about to implement in terms of the Planning and Development Act 2024, has been to put statutory timelines in place for all consent processes and to address judicial review procedures to ensure the process is open to all but is expeditious. All of that is coming in and being implemented.

An Coimisiún Pleanála has been reformed as well with additional staffing, a different structure and a different approach in terms of justifying the rationale for its decision-making. That in itself resulted in a reduction in judicial review cases against An Coimisiún Pleanála decisions and a higher rate of success for the organisation in defending its decisions.

I only have a few seconds left. The other element is infrastructure. I was speaking to a builder recently who was waiting for water to come to his site. He has been told it will take nine months. Building has basically stopped because of the wait. He obviously has a major debt associated with the building. He has a massive interest cost on a daily basis. Why is it that we are so slow at building infrastructure?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Delivery of infrastructure across OECD countries, not just the EU, has increased in time if one compares 2026 with 1976, 1986 or even 1996. That is a fact. It is documented in numerous reports across OECD countries and those produced by the OECD.

On the specific example the Deputy gave, what can we do to try to improve? There are the reforms referred to already in planning.

There is also the better co-ordination of infrastructure through the likes of the accelerating infrastructure task force which is being led by colleagues in the Department of public expenditure. Specifically within the Department of housing there is the housing activation office whereby we are looking to bring in, at the earliest outset, the whole of public infrastructure perspective and ensure all of it is delivered in a timely and co-ordinated fashion to try to break through some of that.

Alongside that, there are procedural and process issues that both utilities have taken and are taking to try to improve timelines around their own deliveries. There is a multifaceted approach to the wider problem.

For example, the CRU fined Uisce Éireann significantly - millions of euro - for not fulfilling their objectives in leak reduction in this country. It feels to me sometimes that when we ask these questions the response is very theoretical. In practical terms, there is no doubt that State bodies and organisations are themselves actually failing in the objectives that have been given to them or are being fined. Unfortunately, the fine is not coming out of their pockets; it is coming out of the pockets of citizens at the end of the day. It is a circular movement of money.

A private builder would be able to build the water connection between the location where the water exists in Meath to the building site themselves in far less time. To be honest, it feels that private enterprise in terms of construction operates on the basis of whether or not it can make a profit and if it cannot make a profit it folds and closes. As a result, that energy forces it to operate within certain time limits and cost restrictions that do not exist for the delivery of public infrastructure in this country. As a result, there is no end of money at the end of the rainbow for public companies in this country. Therefore, we do not have the same level of motivation to be able to deliver in the same timescales.

Mr. Garret Doocey

In respect of the private versus public debate, private companies are not in receipt of public moneys and do not therefore operate in the public accountability framework, such as we are in here today. That is a difference in approach and has to be recognised.

I will give two practical examples in response to the issues raised by the Deputy. Again, it highlights the importance of co-ordination at the outset among the State actors. If we look at the projects being funded by this Department in terms of the housing infrastructure investment fund, we brought on board 82 projects. Part of the kick-off analysis, not just what lands is that project directly benefiting but taking the zone of influence of the project ultimately in terms of the overall settlement and then saying to Uisce Éireann, ESBN, TII and NTA, who are all in the one office, "We are going to fund and deliver this project; it will ultimately benefit this number of new homes. You guys need to have your infrastructure ready and tooled up to deliver alongside the project we are delivering." That is a practical, tangible step we can take to address the issue raised by the Deputy.

The other aspect is, and it was raised by one of my colleagues in an earlier exchange, there is now the potential, in water, for developer led infrastructure to go in. That has been introduced quite recently. It is still early days in terms of the ultimate assessment of the outcome and of the benefits of it but it is now there. This should allow for some of what the Deputy is speaking about to be introduced in Ireland.

I studied economics in college and basic 101 economics is supply and demand. Pretty much all of the discussion on the housing situation in this country is on the basis of supply. Demand is obviously having a massive impact in relation to both access to housing and the price of housing. It is very interesting that 1.2 million people who live in this State were born outside of the State. Ireland is an outlier in those terms. There is no other major European country that has had the same proportion - about 23% - who are born outside of the country. The only other countries that come close are microstates, where small changes of population can make big differences to proportion. I believe 42% of the people on the Dublin housing waiting list at the moment were born outside Ireland. That is very significant. That is not in Mr. Doocey's control at all; I understand that. Does it play any part of the housing activation office's strategic understanding of how to resolve the housing crisis? Does it play any part in the discussions Mr. Doocey has with the Government about strategies to resolve the housing crisis?

Mr. Garret Doocey

Our strategy is underpinned by the Government's stated ambition to deliver 300,000 additional homes by 2030. That is what the housing activation office was set up to do and that is what we are focused on.

It does not play any part. I thank Mr. Doocey.

We will conclude this session of the meeting. I thank the witnesses for their information, support and answers. I ask that the information that has been requested be supplied to the committee as soon as possible and if there are any issues with the supply of the information I ask that the clerk be informed as soon as possible. We will suspend to allow witnesses from the water side of the Department to come in.

Cuireadh an suí ar fionraí ar 5.25 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 5.33 p.m.
Sitting suspended at 5.25 p.m. and resumed at 5.33 p.m.

In the second session, we will meet with officials from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and representatives of Uisce Éireann engaging on the progress made under the 2025-2030 national development plan, NDP, sectoral plan for water services and water quality. From the Department, we are joined by Mr. Fintan Towey, assistant secretary; Mr. Brian Munnelly, principal officer; Mr. Colin Byrne, principal officer; and Mr. Niall McGlynn, assistant principal officer. From Uisce Éireann, we are joined by Mr. Seán Laffey and Ms Pamela Somers.

Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

I remind members that they will be afforded a six-minute speaking slot for questions and answers, with a second chance to contribute if they so wish. I will call the speakers in the following sequence who have asked the committee: Deputies Tóibín, Clendennen, O'Hara and McCormack.

I invite Mr. Towey to make his opening statement.

Mr. Fintan Towey

I am pleased to be here this evening as assistant secretary for the water division in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage to discuss the NDP sectoral plan for water services and water quality. I am joined by colleagues from the Department and Uisce Éireann. I thank the Cathaoirleach for introducing them to the committee.

The Department has overall responsibility for water services, which play an essential role in enabling economic growth, social inclusion, environmental sustainability and the delivery of our housing need. Both our water and wastewater systems require substantial and sustained investment over a number of investment cycles to bring the systems up to the quality and resilience standards required of a modern service, to provide for population growth and to build resilience in the face of climate change. Under the national development plan, record investment of €12.2 billion has been allocated to the water sector out to 2030. The NDP sectoral plan for water services and water quality forms a crucial part of the implementation of the national development plan. Over the next five years, funding of €12.2 billion will be allocated to the water sector, with €11.7 billion or 95% of this being allocated to Uisce Éireann. This investment in our national water utility will support the delivery of a wide range of projects in our cities and regions required for public health and safeguarding the environment, and the delivery of the additional water services capacity that is necessary for the new housing targets to be met.

The NDP also allocated €306 million in investment to restore and improve water quality in rivers, lakes and coastal waters. This funding will be used to scale up and enhance targeted initiatives, such as the Farming for Water European Innovation Partnership, FFW EIP, urban nature-based solution projects to manage surface water drainage and the barrier mitigation programme to improve river habitats. In addition, the NDP provides for €230 million in rural water infrastructure, which is of vital importance in underpinning the provision of safe and secure water services to rural areas that do not have access to Uisce Éireann services. Water services continue to undergo a significant period of reform in the delivery of services with the full integration of public water services into Uisce Éireann to be completed by December this year. Uisce Éireann supplies drinking water to over 80% of the population, while 10% of households get their drinking water from private wells. The remaining 6% of households have their drinking water supplied by group schemes. Public group water schemes are supplied with treated drinking water by Uisce Éireann and manage the distribution, whereas private group water schemes abstract, treat, and distribute drinking water to their members.

The private group water schemes are generally co-operative groups delivering drinking water services to local communities in rural locations. In relation to wastewater, two thirds of households are connected to public wastewater services provided by Uisce Éireann. Virtually all the remaining one third of households dispose of wastewater using domestic septic tanks. The NDP funding will enable Uisce Éireann to make necessary, multigenerational improvements to water and wastewater infrastructure that will target enhancing the health and quality of life, protecting our environment, benefiting communities and enabling growth and development across Ireland. The NDP will support a number of major water projects, including the water supply project, eastern and midlands region, which will have capacity to support water supply needs for up to 50% of the population. It will bring treated water from the Parteen Basin in County Tipperary to Peamount in Dublin, with the capacity for offtakes along the route in Tipperary, Offaly and Westmeath. It will also enable supplies serving Dublin to be redirected back locally in Carlow, Wicklow, Meath and Louth. The NDP will also support the greater Dublin drainage project, which is the development of a new regional wastewater treatment facility and associated infrastructure to serve north Dublin and parts of the surrounding counties of Kildare and Meath. The NDP funding will also be allocated to major projects across the country, including major investments in Limerick and Waterford among other locations.

In relation to the rural water sector, the capital funding programme for the rural water sector 2027-29 is the primary funding vehicle to support capital investment by group water schemes.

This programme supports resilient and high-quality drinking water for rural communities not on the public network. The Department also supports a number of other grant schemes to support rural water services under the NDP, and all of this funding will help to support rural development.

The NDP also supports water quality programmes to support Ireland’s efforts to comply with national and EU law governing water quality, and to meet the objectives of our river basin management strategy. These are evidence-based programmes to improve and restore water quality, including the farming for water European Innovation Partnership, EIP; enhancing urban areas for water quality, the nature and climate resilience scheme; and enhancing rivers for water quality, connectivity, nature and climate resilience.

In conclusion, I will highlight some of the progress made since the NDP sectoral plan for water service and water quality was published in November last year. Among other achievements, various projects have commenced to restore and improve water quality in rivers, lakes and coastal waters. The Minister, Deputy Browne, launched the 2027-29 capital funding programme for the rural water sector. Uisce Éireann, for its part, has accelerated investment in small towns and villages, with 50 locations now progressing through active delivery programmes and additional funding scaling activity beyond the original programme's scope. It has commenced delivery across 72 cities, towns and villages across Ireland as priority locations, targeting housing and economic growth in line with Government targets. It has delivered major wastewater infrastructure projects, including the almost €550 million Ringsend wastewater treatment upgrade, the Arklow sewerage scheme at almost €140 million, and the Athlone main drainage upgrade at over €113 million. As of June 2026, Uisce Éireann has delivered 13 new and upgraded water treatment plants and 5 wastewater treatment plants as well as 97 km of water network and 28 km of wastewater network that are either new or rehabilitated. Uisce Éireann progressed major investments in Limerick and Waterford along with the critical water supply project for the eastern midlands and the greater Dublin drainage project.

I look forward to engaging with the committee this evening.

I think Mr. Towey for the opening statement. I will say this for his benefit and the benefit of other witnesses from other Departments who will be appearing before the committee in the coming weeks to discuss their progress in respect of the national development plan. The name of this committee is the Joint Committee on Infrastructure and National Development Plan Delivery. We are only interested in delivery. The national development plan and sectoral plans are being discussed by the other Oireachtas committees and their line Departments. Our job is to see whether what is in the plans is being done. What happened in 2025? What expenditure happened in 2025? Where did it go? What expenditure happened in 2026? What was actually achieved by that? Where did it go? I am asking Mr. Towey about the capital investment programme for those two years and where the funding went. It is good to see some major projects have been completed, but they might have been ongoing for a couple of years and were just finished in 2025. We want to know what was actually achieved in 2025 and in 2026 in terms of the capital investment.

I take the straightforward view that the national development plan is ambitious. The best barometer we have at the moment to know whether it can be delivered regarding what has been stated for 2027, 2028 and 2029 is to go back to the various Departments and ask what they achieved in 2025 and 2026. People on the ground seeing targets being achieved during the year is the best barometer for us to have confidence that the plans for the next number of years can go ahead.

I understand Mr. Towey's opening statement. His Department is in with us first, but I also want to make it clear to those coming after him in the next couple of weeks who will be saying that the national development plan funding will enable this and support that that is the future. We are talking about delivery. Are we meeting what we are meant to each year? We do not want to wait until four years' time to say that something was delivered. We want to see progress each year. Obviously, projects are ongoing and there will be a contribution to a project. In due course, Mr. Towey might be able to tell us from stage to stage what part is facilitated, if the contractor was on site and if X amount of the staged payment for the contract had been made. We have no feel for what was actually done this year. It is not the projects that are completed because, as I said, they have been in the pipeline a while. Nor is it the projects that are started because there will be a couple of years before that. We want to know, year by year, what we are actually doing. It is a slightly different emphasis than just looking at the plan.

Mr. Towey has listed a few things there on the last page of the opening statement. He can come back to us with this information; he does not have to have it today. I am wondering about the actual capital investment for 2025 and 2026 to date. How much of it went on a particular project? He may set what a reasonable figure is. I do not want to know where the Department spent €50,000 or anything like that, but we want to grasp where the big investment actually went rather than just saying it went on rehabilitation of the network. That is so vague and it is across the board. The Department has information to highlight some of the specific jobs that were done. We are into specifics rather than the general. That general comment applies not only to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, but to all of the other Departments that will be coming before us in the next few weeks. He will get a feel of the information I am asking him to send back to the committee.

I will now call the speakers, who have indicated in the following sequence: Deputies Tóibín, Clendennen, O'Hara and McCormack. We are starting with a six-minute slot.

Gabhaim míle buíochas leis na finnéithe as teacht isteach anseo inniu. The first matter is a small issue, but an important one. There are a large number of what I would call small wastewater group schemes within the country of maybe ten or 15 houses that are linked up to a shared septic tank through some kind of system. There seem to be no grants available for them to do up the system. If each household had a septic tank in its garden, it could apply individually for a grant. It is an easy win for the country in terms of making sure water quality is increased. Will Mr. Towey give me his views on whether that could be arranged. Is that an objective?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The first point I will make is that the general rule, which is actually expressed in law, is that it is the duty of the householder who has a septic tank as a wastewater solution to maintain and ensure that the septic tank is operating as it should in terms of treating the wastewater.

The grant schemes that are available in relation to septic tanks are on an exceptional basis. They are not demand-led nor general in their application. They are targeted at specific instances where there is a risk to environmental damage.

I am sorry, but I am under pressure time-wise.

Mr. Fintan Towey

The scheme applies to individual septic tanks right now. For group schemes, there is the potential of availing of grant funding for connection to the Uisce Éireann network, if that is a possibility. Otherwise, there is no provision.

Is that there right now? That is potentially there right now.

Mr. Fintan Towey

That potentially is there, but obviously they would need to be proximate to the Uisce Éireann network.

Okay. One of the key catalysts of building infrastructure in this country is accountability. Right now, 36% of the water through Uisce Éireann pipes is leaking. The CRU put a fine on Uisce Éireann of €31 million because it had not met its targets in terms of fixing that. In my own county, for example, much of south Meath was without water at the height of the heat during the summer. In towns like Ballivor, schools closed because no water was available to them. This is not just an exceptional occurrence; this has been going on as long as I have been a TD. There has been a lack of ability to deliver water there. The European Commission has referred Ireland to the Court of Justice of the European Union, CJEU, seeking financial penalties for a breach of the urban wastewater treatment directive, saying that eight agglomerations are still not compliant six years after the original judgment.

It is fair to say that in terms of the objectives that the State and European Union have set, and in terms of the experience of the citizen, Uisce Éireann is not delivering on the job it has been set. At the same time, we find it received €13.1 million worth of bonuses last year and the income of the CEO of Uisce Éireann increased from €274,000 to €391,000 in the past year. Does it not jar with the Department that there has been a failure to deliver on objectives and EU rulings, and a failure to deliver for the citizens, and yet the opposite to accountability is happening, in that people are being rewarded for that?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The first point to make is that Uisce Éireann is faced with a whole range of challenges in terms of the network and assets that it inherited from the local authority system, allied to increasing regulatory demands in terms of environmental compliance relating to discharges and increasing regulatory demands in terms of drinking water. On top of all of that is the requirement to expand the capacity of the system to accommodate economic and household growth. There is a whole series of challenges.

Mr. Fintan Towey

It will take time for all of those challenges to be fully addressed. This is something-----

In fairness, I understand that time is taken into consideration in setting those objectives for fixing. Those objectives were considered reasonable and yet were failed significantly.

Mr. Fintan Towey

Progress is being made in respect of leakage. It was 49% when Uisce Éireann took over the system. It is 36% now. There is a plan to reduce that to 30% by 2030. There is progress being made in relation to-----

Did the Department sign off on the increases in salary and the bonuses?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The salary was approved by the Minister with the consent of the Minister for public expenditure following the external independent process reviewing salaries of commercial State body chief executives.

I only have 30 seconds left. The last time Uisce Éireann was before the committee, I asked its representatives when the infrastructural gaps that exist and are currently blocking the building of homes would be filled. They said at that stage it would be 2050. What is Mr. Towey's estimate at this point? Is it still 2050? Has that been telescoped in any way?

Mr. Fintan Towey

There is a plan in place to provide for expansion of the system to accommodate growth targets to 2030 and the Government has provided additional funding under the NDP to Uisce Éireann to address that. I will ask Mr. Laffey to-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

I am conscious of time. On growth, we are very much focused on meeting the Government's Housing for All targets. The additional €2 billion we got for growth has been focused into 72 settlements and that plan has been very much led by the local and regional authorities in their roles as the planning authorities for their functional areas. For those 72 settlements, we have identified all the land that needs to be zoned and serviced and we have plans in place to service all that land. We were lucky in the settlements in that the capacity was there in the water and wastewater treatment plants and most of the investment will go into networks.

Will the gaps in the infrastructure that are blocking the building of homes be complete by 2050?

Mr. Seán Laffey

That is the plan for us to do. The committee met representatives of the housing activation office earlier. As long as we have a plan-led approach to meeting growth, we will meet those targets.

There has been the introduction of a developer-led delivery of water infrastructure, which is probably a good thing. How will that work?

Mr. Seán Laffey

There are a couple of things there. One is developer-led infrastructure, DLI. What that means is that a developer will be able to build a wastewater treatment facility for up to 150 population equivalent, PE, which would discharge the surface waters, or be accommodated as part of our network and we would take it into public ownership straight away. We also have facilitated what we call "bridging infrastructure" whereby if a local treatment plant is at capacity, a temporary wastewater treatment plant can be put in by the developer, which discharges at the same standard as the wastewater treatment plant. It is just a pass-through load. As soon as we have upgraded the plant, we can take that temporary plant offline.

Has any of that started?

Mr. Seán Laffey

Yes. We are moving now on the DLI from the policy area into the technical area. We have a number of applications from developers and are working through it. It is the first time we have implemented general binding rules, looking at treatment plants that will not have specific authorisation but communal general, binding rules. We are working through those with what we call the "early adopters".

I thank all our witnesses for joining us. I would like to raise an issue. In May 2023, it was announced that works had completed on a water treatment facility in Birr, County Offaly, to a value of €10 million. This facility was going to improve the town and provide drinking water capacity for 5,000 houses. Yet, for probably the sixth or seventh time this year, we had an outage last weekend that went on for 48, 56 or 60 hours. The outage starts on a Saturday and a water tanker arrives on the Monday afternoon. There is no water in businesses or houses. Vulnerable people and parents trying to put children to bed are affected. They ring me with a sense of anger. There is a text alert system and you might as well be putting it into ChatGPT. With all due respect, you ring the telephone agents and they are reading the alert online. I do not know what they are doing there in the first place. There is real frustration out there. I am not talking about leaks or legacy issues. I am talking about a €10 million investment in a local town that goes down multiple times in one year. It is simply unacceptable. There is anger, frustration and concern out there that this is going to continue. I would like to know, and I can get his information through the committee, what the resilience and contingency plan is. When the water goes down in Birr the next time, what is going to happen? It can no longer happen. There are businesses that we really need to consider. We heard a speaker talk about bonuses at Uisce Éireann. There was up to €18 million in bonuses while we have a water treatment plant that is not three years old and is not functioning properly. I ask the witnesses to give consideration to a compensation package, similar to what happens when flights are delayed. We need to look at this at a larger level. Businesses are without a supply of water. They are paying water rates for that service. When the supply is out for multiple days and the businesses cannot operate, we have to consider how to compensate those business owners. I ask the witnesses to come back to me with consideration of that issue. If they would comment on that, I would appreciate it.

Mr. Fintan Towey

I can say that the first priority for Uisce Éireann is a secure supply of drinking water. That is clearly expressed in the water services policy statement that the Minister has adopted in relation to water services.

If you are accountable for safe and secure water and €10 million was invested in a water treatment scheme three years ago, there is a problem.

Mr. Fintan Towey

I am not disagreeing that it is unacceptable for there to be a failure in water supply. I cannot comment on the specifics in Birr. I do not have the data. I do not know if Mr. Laffey has any information in that regard.

Mr. Seán Laffey

There were operational issues at the plant which resulted in low pressure.

This is what frustrates people even more. There was an operational issue. What is the problem? Why is it recurring constantly? Why is it repeating? Why did Uisce Éireann spend €10 million on a project if the project is substandard and problems are continuously recurring?

Mr. Seán Laffey

I cannot give the Deputy any details on the operational issue.

We are talking about billions of euro in investment in infrastructure across the country. I am talking about my local town where there is a water treatment scheme and it is not functioning properly. Is this happening at a broader level?

Mr. Seán Laffey

It is happening in older plants. It is happening across the country. We have operational issues from time to time. We have network issues from time to time. I will, however, say that Ireland is unique in that over the past 110 years, our water networks were developed by 34 separate and individual local authorities. As a result, we have 545 networks that are not interconnected. Therefore, resilience is very low. When we have an operational issue, it has a direct and immediate impact.

I am frustrated. I have had to deal with an amount of anger, rightly, from people who were without water for as long as they were. I would like a full report on what has happened in Birr, why the issue is recurring and what measures are going to be taken to ensure it is not going to happen in the future.

Mr. Seán Laffey

We will get that.

I thank Mr. Laffey.

When could that be made available?

Mr. Seán Laffey

I could get it for the committee tomorrow.

If Mr. Laffey would send it to the committee, it will go straight to the Deputy. Somebody in the system knows all about it.

Mr. Seán Laffey

The operations side knows all about it. I just do not have the details.

We understand Mr. Laffey does not have the details today. We understand that.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I will get the information for tomorrow.

We will circulate it immediately after we receive it. We will also send it to Deputy McCormack. We will send it to the two Offaly Deputies.

I asked a question at the previous meeting that the Department was present here for. What provisions is the Department making for rate demands in relation to the pipeline serving the eastern and midlands region? Has Mr. Towey any update on that? He may wish to answer that first and I will come back with the second question.

Mr. Fintan Towey

Will the Deputy explain the question to me?

If the Department is going to be running a utility service through a county, or several counties in this particular situation, is it making a provision for a rate demand in those counties?

Mr. Fintan Towey

I do not know the answer to that question. I know there is-----

I asked this question in the last meeting as well and I still have no answer.

Mr. Fintan Towey

My understanding is that there is legislation about liability for rates. Whether something like this falls within that legislation, I do not know, but that is where the answer lies.

If the committee could get an update on that, it would be appreciated.

Can Uisce Éireann throw any light on the issue of commercial rates in respect of its various establishments?

Mr. Seán Laffey

My understanding is that we pay commercial rates on buildings, but as to our pipelines, I do not know.

For treatment stations, pump houses-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

That is my understanding, but not on a pipeline.

An email was distributed on 2 September relating that a €2 billion investment in towns and villages across the country had been approved. That email I received advised that 72 cities, towns and villages had been approved for capital works under the €2 billion scheme. We have towns and villages in Offaly that did not appear on that list. I wrote back to Uisce Éireann. I am still waiting for a response. The messaging has to be questioned here. We have a commitment under several plans and through Uisce Éireann itself that towns like Edenderry, for argument's sake, will be up and running by 2029. Then, Uisce Éireann sends out a list and it is not even on it. I, as a TD, have to go chasing asking whether it is coming or not and I do not get a response. Uisce Éireann has got a lot of responsibility here. It has a lot of infrastructure to deliver, and I am not getting the confidence right now that it is going to deliver it.

Mr. Fintan Towey

The €2 billion in additional funding to Uisce Éireann was provided by the Government in response to the need for additional funding to deliver the capacity for the new and expanded housing targets out to 2030. In response to that, Uisce Éireann was asked to identify how it would spend that money in order to provide for the necessary increase in capacity. That led to an extensive process by Uisce Éireann looking at where it was possible within the tight timeframe out to 2030 to accommodate growth within the existing treatment plants for both water and wastewater. That is because capacity in the plants is needed to accommodate growth. A significant upgrade of plants is a five-to-seven-year process. If a plant needs a significant upgrade, it is only possible to accommodate growth when that is completed. I know that Uisce Éireann went through a very extensive process in reviewing local authority plans, etc. I will ask Mr. Laffey to expand on that.

Mr. Seán Laffey

The €2 billion is broken up into €300 million for rural towns and villages and €1.7 billion for the 72 settlements. Edenderry is still in the main revenue control period, for which we have €10.3 billion, so it is still in there.

I have a concern that this is going to be pushed out, and it has been pushed out for too many years already.

Mr. Seán Laffey

No. The 72 settlements refer to the €1.7 billion Uisce Éireann was given specifically for growth. The €10.3 billion was a mixture mainly driven by compliance. The €1.7 billion is for growth. We worked with local authorities and regional assemblies to ask them what settlements in their areas did they believe should be developed with the €1.7 billion for growth. Those were the 72 settlements. Those 72 settlements, under the growth fund, do not affect the existing programme of works we have under revenue control 4, which is the €10.3 billion. Edenderry is in there and is progressing.

For future communication, when Uisce Éireann is going to advise on projects that are going to be prioritised or when funding has been allocated in an expedited way, it needs to be clear that this does not have an impact on further-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

No, it does not.

This is up for me to guess.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I understand the Deputy's confusion. Absolutely, when you are very close to something, you assume that people have a certain knowledge of it. Obviously, it did not come across that way. The 72 settlements are funded by the additional €1.7 billion for growth. Edenderry is in the existing €10.3 and is not affected.

I want to raise a local issue. The villages of Craughwell and Clarinbridge in County Galway were awarded funding under the rural water programme measure A8. That was three years ago. The project cost €30 million. In those three years, it does not seem that any progress has been made whatsoever on the scheme. I do not know whether the witnesses are familiar with that and are in a position to comment on it.

Mr. Fintan Towey

Yes, I am very familiar with it. The allocation of funding to develop wastewater facilities in those villages followed a scheme whereby local authorities were invited to bring forward proposals for projects that they would lead and deliver. It was about three years ago. I do not have the exact date when the original approval was given to local authorities to proceed with those projects. Following the approval in principle, it was necessary for the local authorities to refine the actual plans. In that case, the Clarinbridge and Craughwell proposals were combined into a new approach. The facilities are to be transferred to Uisce Éireann, so there has obviously been close engagement with Uisce Éireann. I understand that there is now a clear agreement on a pathway forward to implement those. Uisce Éireann has been deeply involved in ensuring that the final designs and the way forward are acceptable.

It has seemed until now that, between Galway County Council and Uisce Éireann, there was no clear framework and that they were very unclear on their responsibilities in how this project was going to be delivered. Is Mr. Towey saying that those issues have been resolved?

Mr. Fintan Towey

Yes.

What are the next steps? I presume they are design and then construction. Do we have a timeline for any of that?

Mr. Fintan Towey

It now proceeds to procurement and construction. I do not know whether Mr. Laffey has a timeline.

Mr. Seán Laffey

We have no part to play in the rural water schemes, but we have become involved because, ultimately, Clarinbridge and Craughwell need to have wastewater facilities. We now have a memorandum of understanding with the five local authorities involved in this particular rural water programme. We have put a programme manager in place from our side. We are hoping to have a consultant in place to assist in the design and procurement early next month. We hope that, some time next year, we will have planning in place for both of those treatment plants and will be moving to tender and construction. Obviously, building a treatment plant from scratch, especially a wastewater treatment plant discharging into a river in Clarinbridge, is quite an undertaking. It could be five years before it is there, but the project is moving.

Are there sites identified for those?

Mr. Seán Laffey

In fairness, Galway County Council has identified some sites, but we would have to go through a site selection process because if we have to compulsorily purchase land, we must demonstrate that we have optimised the site we are taking.

The other issue with that scheme is that the county council is expected to make a contribution to it of approximately €2.6 million. That could potentially go up to €5 million. That is a significant issue for Galway County Council. I know that is something the councillors have discussed quite a bit because the council has significant funding issues at the moment. It has not budgeted for this. This is a very significant amount of money for the council to be expected to come up with. My understanding is that the council has made the request to the Department for that project to be fully funded. Why has the Department not agreed to that? It is a very large project but putting this requirement on the council is going to be a barrier to delivering it.

Mr. Fintan Towey

This is one of six projects - it was originally seven but is now six due to the amalgamation of Craughwell and Clarinbridge projects - that were proposed by local authorities. Proposals were invited from local authorities on the basis that the schemes would be 15% funded by local authorities and 85% by the Department. The original submission of applications was about four years ago.

Following the approval and the process of refining the plans for implementation purposes, it was the case in a number of instances that the overall project costs increased. Notwithstanding that increase the Department and the Minister agreed that the local authorities commitment would remain at the amount that was 15% of the original project cost. I am not sure how exactly these figures play out in relation to Clarinbridge and Craughwell but it should be the case that Galway County Council is not being called upon to fund any amount greater than when it proposed the project.

Yes, but that is going to be a significant issue for the local authority. That is the point that I am making. When the project is completed, it goes to Uisce Éireann. It is not going to be in the ownership of the County Council. There is not going to be any revenue out of it from the county council. It is going to pose a significant issue in terms of their budgeting, which is very tight every year. They have made that request to the Department on multiple occasions. I ask that it be examined by the Department and that 100% funding of these projects is considered because it is going to be a stumbling block. We have already had things delayed for three years where there has been pretty much no movement on this project. The project is still years away. The bottom line is we cannot afford any further delays on it. I ask that to be considered by the Department.

Mr. Fintan Towey

It was something that was proposed by the local authority in the first instance and the terms on which that project, if approved, would need to be implemented were very clear, and that has not changed. We have had approaches along those lines, and we have rejected them, but I can report the Deputy's request to the Minister.

Mr. Towey might communicate to his Secretary General in the morning that we have the annual report 2024 for the Department but I do not see the 2025 report up on the Department website yet, and we did not get a copy of it. It is the end of September. Can Mr. Towey ask him to send us a copy forthwith?

Mr. Fintan Towey

I will certainly do that. I have seen it in draft form so it is practically complete.

I thank officials from the Department of housing and also Uisce Éireann for coming in. It is great to see the two organisations in together because some of the time when we get in Uisce Éireann, there are questions for the Department of housing, and some of the times we get the Department of housing in, there are questions for Uisce Éireann.

I concur with everything that my colleague Deputy Clendennen said with regard to Birr and the fact that an investment of over €10 million has gone into it, and it still does not seem to be right. I know Mr. Laffey is going to give us a report tomorrow, which is brilliant, but there is obviously something wrong if it keeps breaking down. Can we have an investment in the system that is there to bring it up to scratch so the people and businesses of Birr are not suffering? Department officials are not on the ground there but we are. We get it in the neck every time this happens. It should not happen and it should not be happening as a regular occurrence. Whatever moneys are required for it, the Department should do whatever can be done to make sure that it happens.

Edenderry is in a ludicrous situation with regards to water treatment. The system is at capacity. The community needs a treatment plant as quickly as possible. It looks like it is going to be 2029 before that is done. That is a long time. It is the second biggest town in County Offaly with a population of 9,000 people. It is nearest to Dublin. It is very much a commuter town with the most potential for growth of any town in the county because of the proximity to Dublin on the Kildare border, with people working in Intel and the size of the operation there, but also the connectivity to Dublin. It is ludicrous it was not considered first before other places. Do not get me wrong, Birr needed to be done as well, but Edenderry should not be left until 2029.

The question I have for both organisations relates to the legislation changes to allow developers to put in their own water treatment plants or treatment systems, and then those systems to be taken over by Uisce Éireann. How does that look? When would Uisce Éireann take over a system? How long does the developer have to take control and keep it working before It is taken over by Uisce Éireann?

Mr. Fintan Towey

It is after it is constructed and commissioned. The options are that developers can build a nature-based solution or a more traditional mechanical plant. In terms of the economics, by and large the nature-based solution is the more likely approach in developer-led infrastructure that will be built for handover to Uisce Éireann.

It is early days in terms of this new possibility, which was introduced earlier this year. There have been a number of engagements with the construction industry. There have been some approaches to Uisce Éireann on the possible development of schemes. However, there are not any schemes in development as yet. That is due to the fact that it is early days and for the developer community this is something new. It is something that is linked to housing developments and the process of planning and delivering housing.

We are in a situation in Edenderry where we are at capacity. There is no real chance of development of a large housing scheme in Edenderry unless a modular unit is put in because the other system is not going to work. Putting in a modular scheme is actually increasing the price of the house for the family or the couple that are going to move in there. It is not fair or right that that that to happen. That cost should be taken on by the Government because of the lack of infrastructure in the town. Edenderry has a population of 9,000 people. That is not a small population. This is not something that just happened by chance. That population of Edenderry has been growing for many years because of its proximity to Dublin, the fact that it is on the Kildare border, and the fact that Intel is providing huge employment nearby. Now we also have the Rhode Green Energy Park, which has been built in conjunction with Bord na Móna, and there is talk about more jobs being created there.

We need those houses and we need infrastructure as quick as possible from the likes of Uisce Éireann, but we also need those houses built. There is no point in building them in 2029 when they are needed now. As Mr. Towey said, there are no systems in place at the moment that can be said to have worked or that did not work.

There is a lack of infrastructure because of the Government taking its eye off the ball. We had many years after the crash when there were no houses being built. We should have been looking at infrastructure at that stage and have been putting in the proper infrastructure. When having those discussions, we should be talking about the Government taking up the cos, because it is not fair that the developer then has to pass that cost onto the young family, couple or the individual that wants to purchase that house to live in.

Deputy Clendennen brought up the pipeline. It is been delayed by one year in planning because An Coimisiún Pleanála said it was the biggest project it has ever taken on. It is going to take a year or more to be able to go through all the paperwork because it is very sizeable. There are 100,000 or 150,000 pages and there is a huge amount of work to be done. That is understandable. Does Mr. Towey foresee further delays after that, if everything goes according to plan? It is something that is required to keep the wheels turning on the businesses in Dublin but It is also something that needs to be kept on time for businesses down the country, because there is a spur off that for Tullamore. There is a spur off it for Mullingar, and there is also a connection in Nenagh, which are hugely important for balanced regional growth. I am keeping the pressure on that. Does the Department foresee any further delays apart from that?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The planning application has been made in relation to that. An Coimisiún Pleanála has indicated that a decision will be made no later than quarter 2 next year. Within that framework, Uisce Éireann is actively working on the procurement process. There are four packages of works. Uisce Éireann is seeking to ensure that the timeline for delivery of the pipeline and all of the treatment plants will be achieved on time.

Insofar as things are within their control, they are working to control all those issues. There are, inevitably, some risks that will be outside their control and we need to see what happens in that respect.

I thank the witnesses for coming in. They can probably feel from some of the contributions that there is a lot of frustration among the public around water access and water infrastructure. Public trust is at an all-time low, particularly in communities that are facing constant overnight restrictions.

Castlecomer is my local town and every summer there are overnight restrictions for months, from 7 p.m. to 7.a.m. Overnight restrictions sound so nice - it is like it is 11 p.m. to 6 a.m. - but that is not the reality. It is people's evenings, including people with children and all of these caring responsibilities, as well as people with disabilities. I know the Department knows all of this and I am sure it is difficult for them to have to be constantly at the coalface of that frustration but for us, it is coming from a place of not feeling that there is even an end in sight.

For somewhere like Castlecomer - I am not asking the witnesses to answer this today but it would be great to get the information on it - I know there are early-stage plans to connect it to the Troyswood plant in Kilkenny. However, I get the impression that could be a decade until completion.

I am interested in hearing about the kind of the developer-led piece. Will that be for both wastewater and for water supply or is just for water supply?

Mr. Fintan Towey

Wastewater.

Just for wastewater. Okay. If the Department is doing developer-led projects for wastewater, is it going to involve large, temporary percolation area-type things?

Mr. Fintan Towey

Yes. Nature-based solutions in particular do have an area that is akin to a percolation area.

Then that will just be the new model going forward. The Department would be buying that from the developer after the fact, and that would be the model. There would be no change to that for the development.

Mr. Fintan Towey

It is an opportunity for a developer where other options do not exist and to some extent, it does depend on the case-by-case situation. It is an opportunity where there are constraints in the wastewater treatment plant to enable development. The scheme is on the basis that the developer can develop this, hand it over for operation to Uisce Éireann over the long term and recover the costs through the sale of the houses that are being built.

Can Mr. Towey give us a sense of how many? Could that be for 50 units or 100 units? Does he have a sense of scale on that?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The scheme that allows for a sort of a lighter-touch registration procedure, rather than a bespoke discharge licence from the EPA, is limited to 150 population equivalent which is, broadly speaking, about 40 houses.

In a place where you have a nature-based percolation area system or whatever it might be, what is the water supply route then? Presumably in a place that is hard to reach for wastewater, it is also hard to reach for water supply.

Mr. Fintan Towey

Typically, the footprint in relation to provision of drinking water is wider than that of wastewater. Uisce Éireann supplies drinking water to about 85% of the population. It is essentially easier to distribute drinking water than it is to collect wastewater. The demand in terms of the constraints that were represented to us by developers related to wastewater. There is not a general perception that drinking water supply is a constraint in relation to development of houses.

Somewhere like Castlecomer cannot have new developments built. I understand it is not appropriate because of the water supply and the land. When people have done drilling tests and stuff like that, it is hard to get water up, that is, to have water supply. Presumably, there are lots of places where we cannot build new developments as a consequence of limited water supply.

Mr. Fintan Towey

No. That is not being represented to us as a problem. I have no doubt there are individual cases and I cannot comment on the specifics of Castlecomer but, typically, where there are difficulties in relation to water supply, it relates to constraints of the raw water source that is feeding the treatment plant. Sometimes, that requires finding a new source - a longer-term project, in other words - to fix it.

Specifically, in relation to Castlecomer, I am not sure what the problem is.

I am just talking more generally about that.

Mr. Fintan Towey

It is not widespread as an issue.

On the developer-led piece, the idea of having nature-based solutions in more rural, harder-to-reach areas sounds very productive. I know Mr. Towey is coming at this from the services perspective but we obviously have an affordability question as well. When we have things that are private developer-led, there tends to be an additional cost. Is there any way of guaranteeing that this is done at cost or is it going to be something that will have profit baked into it because that is the nature of private developers?

Mr. Fintan Towey

That is essentially for developers on a case-by-case basis. They are looking at the economics of producing a housing unit and what price they can recover in any given area. They will be looking to recover their costs and get an appropriate return.

There is no guidance that can be provided from a State level to say if they are doing one of these projects, which is fantastic, we would look very unfavourably on the idea of them adding on €20,000 on per house if that is not reflective of what the actual cost of the project would be. It needs to be regulated to a certain extent.

Mr. Fintan Towey

It is not regulated in that respect but the comfort that is given to householders is that responsibility for the ownership and operation of the facility passes over to Uisce Éireann and it carries that into the future. As the Senator knows, there are no charges in relation to such services.

I know. I get that but my concern is where individuals are paying for State deficits. Let us say it is €15,000 in additional cost per house. They have got 40 units. There is an extra €15k that the developer adds because they have done this nature-based percolation area on the site. That means an individual is then paying that. It is added to the house cost. There is a lack of fairness within that, I suppose and, again, it is the postcode lottery of, "I have to buy in a rural area, I cannot afford to live in an urban area, and now I am getting this additional cost by virtue of services not being available where I live".

Mr. Seán Laffey

Generally, developer-led infrastructure, DLI, was aimed at untreated agglomerations that have no network and no wastewater treatment plant. You can build 40 to 45 houses with 150 population equivalent, PE. We have no remit in areas that have no public network or public treatment, so this really is outside of our remit. The reason why we recommended nature-based solutions is all it requires is a contractor, a machine, manpower and diesel. It is not specialist at all and there is no developer that has built houses that cannot build one. It is a reed bed, a willow bed and then it is a discharge and there is a primary treatment tank at the very start of it. If it is built to our specifications - we have specifications - and we oversee it, it goes into our care straight away so we will not have developer-provided infrastructural legacy issues like we had before. Then we have a public network and a public treatment plant in that rural village but, ultimately, the developer has got to do the economics. He has got to come up with a price to sell his houses. If he includes the price of the DLI, that is their call but, ultimately, it falls to the State to operate and maintain it.

I thank the witnesses for coming today. We have a lot to discuss from a wider perspective. The first thing I wanted to raise today was an Instagram post that was put up an hour ago by a local business in Leixlip. It asked:

How are small businesses supposed to survive this?

This year alone I have had to close the Leixlip cafe six times because of water outages and Maynooth twice.

Today in Leixlip we were without water for several hours. This comes just days after we had to close early on Sunday because of the same issue.

And four hours into today's outage, I still hadn't received a single alert or meaningful update from Uisce Éireann.

For a cafe, no water means NO BUSINESS. We can't prepare food, wash dishes, clean hands, or operate safely adhering to the food safety regulations.

Every closure means lost revenue that we can never get back.

To put it in perspective the money I've lost this year could have paid for:

- A part-time staff member every weekend

- The new dishwasher we desperately need

- New front-of-house lighting for Leixlip

- A desperately needed new oven for our Maynooth cafe

- Or, perhaps most importantly, the financial safety cushion every small business needs to survive another difficult year.

There is plenty more but what that highlights to me is the impact that issues around water outages are having in Leixlip, Maynooth and all around north Kildare.

North Kildare has grown in population. We have all seen that. The houses have been built and the council has put them in. At the same time, we can talk about larger infrastructure projects, where water will possibly be coming to Dublin from the Shannon. Ultimately, if the basic pipes and infrastructure are not in place and if those plans are not in place, local businesses will struggle, houses will be without water and the most vulnerable - elderly, children and everybody else - will not be able to go along on a daily basis.

As the post stated, the water was gone last Sunday and went again today. As Mr Laffey knows, this is not the first time I have raised this with him. It is not the first time I have raised it with his team. I have raised it as a councillor over the last number of years. I have had the opportunity to raise it here and in the Dáil with the Minister. However, it is just that this post was put up an hour ago. I thought it significant and impactful to be able to say how it impacts local business. As I said, that is a very specific business in Leixlip, but at the same time, it could speak for many other businesses in Leixlip and, indeed, many householders. It is just that this person posted this and had obviously sent it to me as well.

Mr. Seán Laffey

We have had this discussion before. That particular area of the network in north Kildare is under tremendous pressure and is at an age now where once it starts to deteriorate and starts to burst, it bursts a lot and we get a lot of leakage. We are working on that. Our national network is about 65,000 km long. We have funding over a five-year period to replace roughly 500 km to 600 km of that. It is very expensive work, but we are starting to focus in those areas. The last time we appeared before the Oireachtas joint committee, the Deputy raised the issue of the network around the Intel plant and the bursts that were happening along there, so we are going to focus there-----

It is the same 405 line that has probably burst. They burst on Sunday. I do not know about today, but probably-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

We have plans to replace that. The Deputy will appreciate that it is a very complex piece of work and it is going to require a lot of investment but we are committed to that. What I would say, and it is probably cold comfort for people, is that if they are operating a business or have a home, it is recommended that they have 24-hour storage in case of something like a burst pipe. I know a lot of people will operate directly off the main and do not have that type of storage, but that is what is recommended.

At the same time for a business with storage, people are not going to have significant water in a café, be it for washing dishes or preparing food, never mind everybody else. Typically, people come down in the morning and run their tap. If there is no water running in it, they are not going to have it. I would be very conscious as well that the issues are quite localised. I asked this here before. Would it be tolerated in local leafy areas close to this building in the same way it is tolerated elsewhere? It might also speak to the development we have had. We have obviously had a wider discussion on this in the housing context. We can talk about delivering pipes for new areas and new housing but, ultimately, if the infrastructure our current housing stock is sitting on is weak, especially in growth areas, and I would say possibly the same for south Meath and north Wicklow, we need to look at that. Maybe the older Dublin infrastructure is stronger but definitely our small village and old small-town model of extending housing on weaker infrastructure does not seem to be working. If it is not working, that needs to be called out and that is where the real focus needs to be. This Leixlip issue is not new. It is not something that started happening. It is something that continues to happen yet it still has not been put on a capital project. There are obviously moves towards doing that, but at the same time, we need to ensure that actually gets done. That is as critical infrastructure as any infrastructure can be.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I would agree. Leixlip is not unique across the country.

Mr. Seán Laffey

We have other places where it is going. I understand the Deputy has to represent his constituents. We are, for want of a word, chasing priorities and problems across the country as they occur, but what I can assure the Deputy is that Leixlip is a priority for us-----

Yes, and I would also-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

-----but getting these types of work done is very complex. I absolutely do appreciate that if we are going to extend the network, we need to make sure the network that is serving that new network is robust and reliable.

We obviously referenced Leixlip and Maynooth in this situation but Celbridge has seen significant work. We have had to do significant work there from that perspective. Even at Allen, we have had significant issues with the reservoir. They are quite different issues in different locations but they speak to an underlying question around the water infrastructure considering the continued development that will be taking place in those in those areas. That is why, from a local authority perspective and a housing perspective, the pressure is put on areas like north Kildare to deliver houses. If I said to the Minister for housing that we cannot build any more houses in north Kildare, he would have a conniption, and rightly so. In the same way, it is not fair on the people and residents there. It is not fair on the houses that will be built there if we do not have the infrastructure in place. That is the crux of it - getting infrastructure and bringing it up to the areas for new houses but also ensuring we have the infrastructure for the houses that are already there.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I agree. In terms of long-term strategic network reinforcement, the fact is that we are starting to be plan-led and we are actually working in an integrated fashion with the Department of housing and the housing activation office so that in seven- or ten-years’ time, this is where the development is going to happen. We can focus the investment to make sure our networks are ready for that investment whereas, in the past, we were just working in our own way with Uisce Éireann or Irish Water and the local authorities used to work in their own way. Everything needs to be joined up. If we are going to develop an area, we need to have all the services ready to go. I would not disagree.

As I said, my fear and my question is about how we are seeing significant development all across north Kildare and plenty of county development plans that we will not ultimately keep pace with it. It is good to discuss the wider strategic water plan. We have only discussed water, never mind wastewater. Those questions have to be asked but we need to ensure that while we talk about group projects, we are actually in a position where those new houses and, as I said, the current housing stock can actually sit on meaningful wastewater and, primarily in this case, actual water infrastructure.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I agree, absolutely.

Did Mr. Laffey say at the very beginning there was something like 5,000 km of-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

We have 65,000 km of water mains.

It is 65,000 km.

Mr. Seán Laffey

I wish we had 5,000 km but it is 65,000 km.

How many did Mr. Laffey say Uisce Éireann is proposing to-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

Between 500 km and 600 km of existing water main will be rehabilitated.

It is pretty small percentage, is it not?

Mr. Seán Laffey

It is, but it can cost up to €1 million or €1.5 million per kilometre in a town or city to replace a water main.

With a population of 5.5 million, which has been increasing very significantly, and this roll-out of 20 years, what are the witnesses projecting that their service will be able to deliver? I know the Shannon scheme will help and all that, but it does not seem that will be enough. What are they projecting the population will be in 20 years’ time that they need to be gearing up to be able to supply? That is for the Department or Uisce Éireann, Which of the witnesses can answer?

Mr. Fintan Towey

In terms of the greater Dublin area, the focus is very much on the two major projects that have been developed, namely, the water supply project and the greater Dublin drainage project. Both of those are intended to ensure there is sufficient capacity out to beyond 2050. It will provide for the anticipated growth. I do not have the actual population figures to hand but it is looking to the forecast-----

I will not talk about the cost, but what will the strategic plan be for the next-----

Mr. Seán Laffey

Ultimately, for Uisce Éireann in terms of network extension and keeping capacity, as I said, it is it is very much plan-led. If the plan for Dublin was suddenly that we build up the core of Dublin, then go vertical and start building 30-, 40- or 50-storey buildings, then the existing network-----

Mr. Laffey is frightening the horses now.

Mr. Seán Laffey

Okay. That is very different than constantly extending out into the country a flat, long-distance network. We have about twice the amount of network per head of population that Germany does.

Because of the density of the population.

Mr. Seán Laffey

Right, because we tend to grow out and not up.

Generally, and I know we covered it earlier, roughly what percentage of all the water being supplied to business, industry and houses is done through the Department and how much is done through group water schemes and other schemes?

Mr. Fintan Towey

The private wells account for about 10% of drinking water. Then, on the group water schemes, there is about 4% that is privately sourced and then there is about 2% of the group schemes that take water from-----

About 16% of all water is supplied outside of the Department through those schemes with which we are all familiar.

Mr. Fintan Towey

Yes, about 14% or so.

Okay. At this stage, we have had a good discussion. I thank the witnesses for the contributions today and for assisting the committee. They might get any information requested by the committee into us as soon as possible. They did highlight one issue for tomorrow morning. If there are any hitches on the other information that has been requested, they should keep the clerk notified of the timescale. As there are no other matters today, the meeting stands adjourned until 30 September.

Cuireadh an comhchoiste ar athló ar 6.39 p.m. go dtí 3.30 p.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 30 Meán Fómhair 2026.
The joint committee adjourned at 6.39 p.m. until 3.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 30 September 2026.
Share