Vol. 1030 No. 1
57. Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin asked the Minister for Education her intentions to co-operate with any potential inquiry into abuse allegations in a secondary school (details supplied) and other educational institutions. [58252/22]
I appreciate that the issue of the accusations of abuse in Blackrock College has to be dealt with sensitively. I believe that the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and other members of the Government are dealing with it with the greatest of sensitivity. There is an acknowledgement that an investigation or inquiry is needed. What is the Minister's view on the necessity of such an inquiry? What type of form would such an inquiry take, seeing as the Department of Education would be to the forefront of any inquiry into what happened at Blackrock College and other religious-run schools?
I reiterate how heartbreaking and disturbing these revelations and all revelations of abuse are. Sexual abuse of a child by a teacher, school employee or any other person is a repugnant act. It is also a criminal act. In the first instance, it is, therefore, critical that crimes that have been committed are fully and thoroughly investigated by An Garda Síochána, and that process must not be compromised. I have met with a number of survivors in recent days and will continue to do so. I appreciate how bravely so many have openly shared their own harrowing experiences with me and I wish to give voice to the enormous hurt and trauma they and so many others have endured.
It is important that there be an effective and survivor-led response from the Government. The Government is considering how best this can be achieved, having regard to both any Garda investigation and the wishes of survivors. As I said, I have engaged with a number of survivors over recent days to get a better understanding of what they would like to see happen and I will continue to do so as a priority in the coming days.
There is considerable expertise and experience in this area, and it may also be helpful if we were to examine previous inquiries of different types and identify what lessons we can take from them in respect of how they operated and the outcomes achieved and, in particular, the impact on survivors. The Department of Education and I are committed to fully supporting whatever actions are agreed.
I am also conscious that these revelations may have raised concerns about present day arrangements. In that regard, it is important to share with the House the significant changes that have taken place in our school environment since the era to which many of these allegations relate. Today we have a robust suite of measures in place to protect our children in the school environment.
The Department's Child Protection Procedures for Primary and Post-Primary Schools 2017 provides guidance to schools on their responsibilities under the Children First Act 2015 and the Children First national guidance 2017.
Thank you, Minister. We will let Deputy Ó Ríordáin back in, after which you may finish the reply.
I appreciate the Minister's response but, in tabling this question, I had assumed there would be a good chance that by the time we spoke today an inquiry would have been announced. I understand that she is to make contact with Opposition spokespeople as to how best this inquiry could be formulated. I also understand that it is the Government's intention to have an inquiry. I am happy that the Minister is committed to having a survivor-led inquiry. It is important that the Government takes advice on any ongoing Garda investigations.
The Minister spoke about how things have changed since the period in which some of these abuses took place, yet it is clear that some of those who were overseeing these institutions at that time are still in place. There are accusations that people who were involved in abuse still reside in these institutions. There are also accusations that people in positions of authority were approached 20 years ago and were told to return only if they had a solicitor. While the regulations and legislation and the oversight by the Department may have changed in the interim, the personnel who oversaw this and had responsibility for the care of children are still in place. What we need, at least from today, and I acknowledge that there will be statements on this later, is clarity on when and how this inquiry will be established and when it will take place.
I acknowledge the Deputy's sincerity and the sincerity and unanimity across the House in expressing our revulsion and unequivocal condemnation of what has been visited upon so many children, young people, now adults, who continue to live with this repugnant trauma. I acknowledge, as the survivors have said to me, that they live with it, their families live with it and their wider communities live with it.
The Deputy is 100% correct that it is my intention to consult all Opposition spokespersons, who will shortly receive notification in that regard. I very much want them to be part of the engagement and consideration of what we are about. He has been clear, and we have all been very clear, on the importance of the voice of the survivors. It is for that reason I am currently engaging with them. He is also correct that, as I have outlined, we have to be clear that there will be no impact, rightly, on the Garda inquiry, which must continue.
This is an absolute priority, and I am happy to work across the House and with everybody to ensure we get the best possible outcome in respect of the type and scope of the inquiry.
I reiterate that I believe the Government is dealing with this in a proper manner.
The Minister is dealing with it with the sensitivity it demands. However, weeks have passed and there needs to be a sense of when this inquiry will take place and what its nature will be. We must also ensure that none of this can ever happen again. While the Minister rightly points to changes in the system over the past number of years and decades, this needs to feed into the citizen' assembly on education to ensure that this deference to religious institutions and fee-paying schools in the system can be broken and that every child in every school is protected by the State. I look forward to the Minister's engagement and, hopefully, if not by the end of today, we will have clarity on how and when this inquiry will take place by the end of the week.
I appreciate the Deputy's genuine determination to engage with this, which is replicated across the House. I welcome that. It is important to note that we do have robust child protection measures in our schools, oversight of which is conducted by our inspectorate. Notwithstanding that, we are in a situation where we need to ensure that an appropriate inquiry is put in place to deal with all the abhorrent revelations that have come to light. To do that, it is important that there is sufficient engagement with all concerned. We will move at a pace.
56. Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire asked the Minister for Education if her attention has been drawn to the growing difficulties regarding shortages of teachers at post-primary and primary schools and the impact that it is having on schools; and the action that she intends to take to address this. [58460/22]
I blame the national broadcaster for my delay and I apologise for that. The Minister will be familiar with the survey that the Irish Primary Principals' Network, IPPN, published last week during its conference. It found that some 52% of school principals in County Kildare did not have their full quota, 65% in County Dublin and 46% in County Wicklow. Similar problems exist at post-primary. Much of it is caused by the cost-of-living crisis. What does the Department propose to do about it?
I am aware that some schools are currently experiencing challenges in recruiting teachers and I am conscious of the impact this could have on our schools. Newly qualified teachers, NQTs, represent an additional source of supply. More than 3,600 primary and post-primary NQTs are registered with the Teaching Council this year. In May 2021, the Department published an updated technical report - Developing a Teacher Demand and Supply Model for Ireland 2020-2038. The report projects a decrease in demand for primary teachers to 2036 while at post-primary level the downward trend in demand starts from 2024. Work is ongoing to produce projections of post-primary teacher demand and supply on a subject level basis.
The IPPN, in line with the teacher supply action plan, has developed a portal for the recruitment of teachers to long-term teaching positions. The IPPN also operates a sub seeker, which has almost 12,000 teachers registered with it. Significant additional posts have been allocated to the primary substitute teacher supply panels bringing the total number up to 151 panels.
For the current school year, job sharing teachers may be employed to work in a substitute capacity and the limit on substitute work applying to teachers on career break has been suspended. Third and fourth year student teachers can now register with the Teaching Council and more than 2,100 student teachers have applied for registration.
At post-primary level, the Department has recently put in place a scheme that allows teachers teach additional hours in their subject area over the usual 22-hour weekly limit, up to a maximum of 20 additional hours per term. Furthermore, retired teachers who maintain their registration can provide substitute cover and the Department has agreed a waiver of abatement with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform for such teachers. The Department runs a comprehensive programme of work to support the supply of teachers and engages closely with the school management bodies and other education stakeholders.
Higher education institutions, HEIs, have developed new four-year initial teacher education undergraduate programmes in a number of post-primary priority subjects, including Irish, mathematics, computer science and modern foreign languages.
I wish to advise the Deputy that the process for the approval of the intake on the primary bachelor of education, BEd, programme and professional master of education, PME, programme for the 2023-24 academic year has commenced and the State-funded HEIs will be advised of this shortly.
Many of those measures are for the longer term. The Minister will tell me it is the job of the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage's, which it is but some of this problem relates to the fact that teachers cannot afford to rent or get a mortgage in or around Dublin, Cork or Galway, and a whole-of-government approach is required. Regarding what the Department of Education and the Minister can do, much of what she referred to was at primary level whereas some of the most profound issues are at post-primary level. There are schools in Dublin and surrounding areas telling parents they cannot offer certain subjects they offered for years because they cannot get teachers. One thing that the Department can do is to release more positions so that teachers who work on a part-time basis can work full time and teachers who are not on a permanent contract can be given one. Is this something the Department is examining?
We need to look at this in the round. We have seen significant changes, enhancements and improvements in education over the past two years both at primary and post-primary level. For example, at primary level, over the past three budgets we ensured that there has been a reduction in the pupil-teacher ratio. It is an historic low of 23:1. We have ensured that all teaching principals have at least one administration day in respect of leave. Where schools have a teaching principal and two or more special classes, they are automatic administrative principals. All that is positive and proactive. It needed to be done and has been welcomed by all. It does have an impact. To compensate for that and the requirement for additional teachers, we have proactively looked at measures. We have lifted restrictions around job share, career break and retired teachers. More than 800 retired teachers came on stream last year. There are other initiatives. The Deputy referenced the post-primary sector. We have introduced the share a teacher model under which teachers can be shared between schools. There are upskilling courses at post-primary level that are fully funded by the Department in key areas. We are beholden to our third and fourth year student teachers who can now register with the Teaching Council. More than 800 Hibernia students will come on stream and that is only one HEI when it comes to availability to work in the coming weeks.
The Minister answered several other questions but she did not answer the questions I asked regarding additional positions. I do not believe that is necessarily what will resolve it at primary level but I am talking particularly about post-primary level where some teachers work on a part-time basis and others do not have a permanent contract. If they can be offered a permanent or full-time contract, they will stay with the schools and they can be recruited, particularly in the areas where there is significant pressure.
We are coming into the Christmas period and teachers will be coming back from the Middle East, Britain and elsewhere. I would say that many of them would like to stay. The Minister will recall that her predecessor on a visit to the Middle East some years ago was told by a teacher that they wanted to come back immediately and asked whether they could be given a permanent contract. As I understand it, that will not be the case. If the teacher asked the Minister whether she could give him or her a permanent contract, that would still be the case. Can the Minister consider permanent contracts and contracts of indefinite duration for teachers who are returning from abroad this Christmas?
The Deputy has to concede that we have looked at a variety of different methods. We have been proactive in this area, notwithstanding the challenges in teacher supply. In the interest of balance, the issues being faced in the education sector are not unique. We are seeing similar issues in other sectors whether it is hospitality, retail, healthcare or whatever. This is the position we find ourselves in at this time. We have an unprecedented climate internationally and all the other issues.
We have examined a number of measures and put measures in place. I am open to looking at all measures. We have a positive contracts of indefinite duration programme in place, which is a positive move for staff, and we keep everything under review. I am happy to do that.
58. Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire asked the Minister for Education the actions that have been taken to further the budgetary commitment to providing free schoolbooks at primary level; if she has engaged with the relevant stakeholders since this announcement; and if she will outline the model that will be put in place. [58461/22]
I am encouraged by the commitment to free schoolbooks. Myself and Sinn Féin have raised this issue for several years at budget time. I regularly make the point that we are 70 years behind the North in that.
To get that delivered is not just a case of announcing it. We need to know what the model will be, where suppliers, publishers and so on fit in, and how schools will manage it. Could the Minister tell us a bit more about that?
The Government recognises the cost of preparing children for school each September can be a financial difficulty and challenge for many families. Therefore, as part of budget 2023, I announced over €50 million to provide free books to primary school pupils within the free education system from September 2023. This measure will eliminate the cost to these families of all schoolbooks at primary school, including workbooks. It delivers on the programme for Government commitment to extend the free schoolbook pilot, currently in 102 DEIS primary schools, as resources permit. The free primary schoolbooks scheme will benefit up to 540,000 pupils in approximately 3,240 recognised primary schools, including over 130 special schools.
The implementation of the measure will build on the existing schoolbook rental scheme, which is available in some 94% of recognised primary schools. It also builds the free schoolbooks pilot I mentioned.
My officials are continuing to engage on how the scheme will operate. Initial contact has been made with some of the education partners on the measure. Over the coming period, my Department will be engaging further with the education partners and other stakeholders to roll out the measure in sufficient time for the 2023–24 school year.
Guidance on the procurement of books will be developed as part of our further engagement process with schools, parent and management bodies and other stakeholders on this measure. The scheme will seek to ensure that value for money is achieved and that schools will be supported to implement the scheme in a way that has the best learning outcomes for pupils. Schools will continue to have autonomy to choose books that meet curricular requirements. My Department will consider the information from the 102 schools involved in the free schoolbook pilot when developing the guidance on the procurement of books.
It is planned that funds will be provided to schools to purchase schoolbooks and related classroom resources. Schools buy books directly from schoolbook suppliers at present as part of the implementation of the schoolbook rental scheme. Ninety-six percent of primary schools participate in the scheme.
As Minister for Education, I am acutely aware of the costs faced by families upon the return of their children to school each September. This will be a ground-breaking measure.
I share the Minister's sense of the value of the measure. It is a shame that it was not extended to post-primary level, where the books are more expensive, but we will have that debate another day.
The question I still have concerns how the arrangement will work. It does not seem there is any clear sense of that. It is two months since the budget. I presume this was discussed within the Department for some time before the budget. The Minister talks about the education partners. Who they are is not a vague concept but a very specific one. Typically, it does not include the publishers or bookshops. Do not get me wrong - I believe they should not have a veto by any manner or means. Our priority needs to be to ensure the delivery of books free to children. The views of the booksellers and publishers can be taken on board but ultimately we need to decide what is in the best interest of children.
With regard to how we are going to roll this out, I presume discussions are necessary with the groups. Therefore, has the Minister met any of the publishers or bookshop owners regarding how books will be got from the printing press into the children's hands? I am not clear on that.
On the Deputy's reference to post-primary level, if we had an abundance of money, we would-----
I am not seeking to get into that.
No, but I am just making the point. A sum of €50 million is available to me. I am beginning the process at primary level but it is my hope and expectation that it will in time progress to post-primary level. We already have a very successful book rental scheme, operated by 96% of our schools.
With regard to engaging with book publishers and booksellers, schools will have autonomy regarding how they engage. If they wish to engage with a local distributor, they may do so. I made that very clear when I make my announcement and continue to do so.
There are lessons to be learned from the book rental scheme. There are also lessons to be learned from the pilot programme we have run for DEIS schools. All of that has been brought to bear. Initial discussions have taken place with the partners in education, and these will continue. The engagement will be fully consultative. I am very clear about the fact that individual schools will be free to continue with local arrangements, including through local bookshops, if they so wish.
I want to see this succeed but it all has the ring of "It will be all right on the night." The Minister refers to the education partners but she has not challenged me on, or disputed, the fact that they do not include the publishers or booksellers. I am open to being challenged on this. It does not seem there have been any discussions.
The Minister's reference to autonomy indicates there is a relatively decentralised model and that schools will be provided with a fund with which to procure the books. Am I picking that up right or will there be an element of central procurement? Will there be tendering? Obviously, the money is significant when we consider the needs of the whole State and also EU procurement rules.
It is fair enough to state the book rental scheme is good but that is not the same as free schoolbooks or what the Minister talked about. It is a step along the way but not where we need to go to. I really hope we see what I want in September but I am a little worried about the lack of preparation, or at least the lack of a clear sense as to how this will work. Having listened to the Minister, I believe there could be any number of things.
The Deputy, given his position as education spokesperson, will appreciate more than most the value of engaging across the table on any departmental initiatives. That has been a feature of everything we have done, particularly since I became Minister. That engagement will continue. It will specifically include, in respect of the working out of this, the lessons learned from what we did in the past, namely, the book rental scheme and the DEIS scheme, under which there were free schoolbooks. A variety of options have been put on the table regarding central procurement. It is also a matter of ensuring autonomy within the schools. All of those options are being analysed and worked through in the Department with the partners in education, and, obviously, it will be-----
It is more than just the Department of Education.
I have just said "with the partners in education". Any further discussions required with interested parties and central parties will take place. However, the first step is to engage with the partners in education.
Tá an t-am istigh. Níl an Teachta Gannon i láthair. Mar sin, bogfaimid ar aghaidh go dtí Ceist Uimh. 60, in ainm an Teachta Ó Laoghaire.
Who the education partners are is very clear.
Let us be clear that this should be led by the Department of Education and education partners.
Of course, but-----
The service providers will be consulted in due course.
Táimid ag bogadh ar aghaidh go dtí Ceist Uimh. 60 anois.
Excuse me. That was probably out of order. I accept that.
60. Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire asked the Minister for Education if she will provide an update on the preparations being undertaken by her Department and the National Council for Special Education for admissions to special schools and special classes in September 2023; if it has forecasted the number of places that will be required; and if all parties are now beginning to analyse where it may be necessary to make use of legislation to compel schools rather than waiting until late spring. [58462/22]
Bearing in mind the discussion on special education on RTÉ, where we need to get to with special schools and special classes is not where we were in the past couple of years, which involved panic in April and May over where children would go. I have already been contacted by parents about September 2023, and some were worried about September 2024. We need to ensure the forecasting is right and that we can wrap this up early this year, or early in the spring, so we do not have panic. I want an update on that from the Minister of State.
I thank the Deputy for raising this. We debated a lot of these points already on radio. I did not get the opportunity to mention the National Council for Special Education, NCSE. I did mention the extra €30 million in funding that we secured for it in the budget, but the reason it is pertinent to this question is that the council will now be in a position to hire new special educational needs organisers, SENOs. One of the things that strikes me when travelling around meeting school staff and principals is that they have had difficulty on some occasions over communication with SENOs. They comprise a critical link between families and schools. We need more SENOs. The NCSE is going to be in a position to hire an extra 160 staff. It is in the process of recruiting them. They will really help in the shorter and longer term in mitigating the problem of the last-minute rush that the Deputy correctly stated occurred in the past, whereby there was a scramble to obtain an appropriate placement, be it in a special school or special class. I wished to reiterate that because it very much reflects what is happening on the ground from an operational perspective.
John Kearney, the new CEO of the NCSE, is doing an awful lot to make sure those lines of communication are kept open. In fairness to SENOs, there was only one SENO for every 55 schools in the past. That is a huge caseload and, with the best will in the world, it has been very difficult for them to have to constantly update families as to the status of the process. I hope that will make a significant difference and ameliorate the situation.
I will take this opportunity to go to the parish pump. If we are recruiting SENOs, I wish to state that there is an absence of them in my area. The Minister of State might take note of that.
There is a shared objective, namely, that we do not have a scramble every year. There are almost 1 million children in our 4,000 schools and there is easily the capacity to accommodate these children, provided we plan early enough to ensure every child has an appropriate school place. We are not yet at that point, but that can be achieved not too far into the future. To achieve that, we need to have early forecasting. Do the NCSE and the Department have a number, even an estimate, of the number of children who will require special classes or schools in September 2023? If they have those figures, what are they? If not, when will they have them?
Regarding SENOs in Cork, I can make inquiries. There are 63 new special classes in Cork this year, out of the 600 special classes we opened in primary schools this year, along with the 300 classes in post-primary schools and five special schools opened over the past three years.
In terms of numbers, it is critical that the NCSE is aware of children who require an appropriate placement, and this is where SENOs come in. I refer to one of the difficulties in the past, of which the Deputy may be aware. A child who has received a different professional assessment, or for reasons of parental preference, may move from a mainstream to a special class or vice versa or from a special class to a special school. It can be interchangeable. Some schools were not informing the NCSE of that. For this reason, it was under the misconception that there was capacity in circumstances where there was not. That issue has now been addressed.
I am aware of the number of schools in Cork with places. As is the case everywhere else, there is a significant discrepancy between what is available in primary and post-primary schools. One of the biggest challenges we need to address is the number of places in post-primary education.
One of the most frustrating issues to deal with is people who are looking for places in post-primary schools, and whether the NCSE or local schools have provided enough places. Parents have children who are 12 years of age, have had diagnoses and have been in the school system for years. They do not understand how the Department or NCSE could not know that their children need places. It is very hard to dispute that. The Minister of State did not have an opportunity to address that in the time available. Do the NCSE and Department have a figure, even an indicative one to the closest 100 or whatever, for the number of places available? If they have that information, what is the figure? If they do not have it, when will they have it? That is crucial to making decisions around section 37A.
They are, of course, aware of the numbers. They change on a daily basis, as the Deputy can appreciate. That is why we have all of the forecasting measures, which I outlined to the Deputy. For the sake of the House, we are bringing forward a number of different strategic initiatives. The geographical information system, GIS, through the planning and building unit, is now sharing real-time capacity information with the NCSE. There is updated technical guidance for building reconfiguration. There is future-proofing at post-primary level.
I mentioned that I have written a letter to all post-primary schools in recent weeks stating that we will expect them to open at least four special classes in each post-primary school over the next five years. Not all of them will have to open special classes next September, but they will need to do so in future. There are 1,803 special classes at primary level and 704 at post-primary level. We will need more in the post-primary sector, as the Deputy said, over the next few years.
