Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate – Dáil Éireann (34th Dáil) – Tuesday, 17 Jun 2025

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Child Protection

Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan

I appreciate the Minister coming in this evening to take this Topical Issue matter. He will be aware that earlier during the Order of Business, I raised this issue with the Taoiseach, but such is my concern about this matter that I believe it needs further deliberation.

On 8 June, the Sunday Independent's Mark Tighe wrote an article entitled "FAI 'too slow' to act over allegations of former national team manager's behaviour towards female footballers". As I mentioned earlier, the article alleged a number of things, but mainly that the FAI agreed a financial settlement with its former director of public relations to keep details of his complaints from becoming public. Second, and crucially, despite the FAI stating publicly that it only learned of these allegations in early 2024, the FAI's former director of public relations attempted to make a protected disclosure alleging the FAI had knowledge of these issues back in May 2023.

I know this because I have access to the same information as the journalist who wrote the article on 8 June. Despite the FAI claim that it had no knowledge of these concerns prior to early 2024, I can see that the former chief executive initiated a conversation internally on 4 May 2023. It is there in black and white for all to see. With the back and forth he engaged in on that day, I can see other senior officials acknowledging that they were "aware of stuff behind the scenes" in relation to this individual. Another remarked that it was an issue "to discuss privately perhaps", but that there were "potential historical complaints of his time in management". I understand from the FAI's formal correspondence with me that it internally decided not to proceed with an investigation in 2023 as it determined that suspicions, rumours and concerns that were reflected regarding the individual in question did not come in the format of a formal complaint or allegation at that time.

I am not attempting to stray into the specifics of any allegations. That is a matter for the authorities concerned. However, for an organisation such as the FAI not to act on this matter, even in the absence of an official complaint or allegation, is extremely worrying and, if I am being brutally honest, it directly contradicts its child welfare and safeguarding policy, which I have a copy of with me this evening.

That document explicitly states that in relation to any case of abuse, if a mandated person knows, believes or has reasonable grounds to suspect that a child has been, is being or is at risk of being abused, the mandated person must report this issue to Tusla under the Children First Act 2015. The same policy that I have here has provision for the standing-down of staff in circumstances where concerns are raised with the FAI outside a statutory authority investigation. This did not happen until nearly a year after the individuals first came to attention.

In addition, the FAI's safeguarding policy also states that individuals should always inform Tusla when they have reasonable grounds for concern that a child may have been, is being or is at risk of being abused or neglected. In addition, it is not necessary for the individual to prove that abuse has occurred. All that is required is that the individual have reasonable grounds for concern. Reasonable grounds include "any concern about any potential sexual abuse". Did this happen in this case? Was the child protection officer informed? Was the safeguarding officer within the FAI consulted?

Having seen the evidence, I think it is fair to ask the FAI if it reached the threshold required by its own policies. If individuals within the FAI in May 2023 conceded that they were aware of stuff behind the scenes, wanting to discuss privately offline the potential historical complaints of these individuals in management and the former chief executive conceding that they had to assume more of this could be out there, surely that is concerning. Nobody and no script from any Department will tell me that those conversations by their very nature do not point to the fact that people in the FAI had concerns covered by their own safeguarding documents. My only concern is to ensure that safeguarding in a large organisation like the FAI, to which we entrust our children and young people, is followed.

Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. As he is aware, the matter in question is the subject of an ongoing Garda investigation and we must remain mindful of that fact during our discussions this evening.

It is the view of my Department and that of Sport Ireland that the FAI has engaged appropriately with these allegations. From the newspaper article which the Deputy mentioned, it seems that no complaint was made to nor any evidence of inappropriate behaviour received by the FAI in 2023. Once it received a formal complaint in January 2024, the FAI acted swiftly and contacted An Garda Síochána and Tusla in accordance with mandatory reporting requirements and its own safeguarding and child welfare regulations

The allegations made by women involved in football in the 1990s were truly shocking and I commend the bravery of those who came forward to tell their stories. It is vital that allegations of this nature are taken seriously and dealt with in the appropriate manner. Last year’s reporting of this story, both in print and on television, played an important role in bringing those stories to light.

Once it received a formal complaint, the Football Association of Ireland contacted An Garda Síochána about these cases, in accordance with mandatory reporting requirements and its own safeguarding and child welfare regulations. It has fully engaged and co-operated with the ongoing Garda investigation.

Following the revelations, the FAI introduced an anonymous reporting mechanism to allow players and others to flag concerns and report inappropriate behaviour to Raiseaconcern, an independent complaint-handling firm. I would urge anyone who experienced harm or abuse from Irish football or who wishes to report issues related to abuse or inappropriate or unlawful behaviours to contact this independent service to make a statement. In addition, the FAI’s safeguarding awareness campaign, Play It Right, was rolled out to clubs across the country, promoting good behaviour and a confidential independent helpline and website for anyone who wants to report a serious concern anonymously.

Cases such as these serve as a reminder of the need to be ever-vigilant and of the importance of safeguarding policies and procedures in our efforts to create, protect and promote a culture that allows people to speak out about anything that makes them uncomfortable, in all sports. It is vital that allegations of this nature are taken seriously by any national governing body of sport and that an athlete-centred approach is taken in response.

In August 2023, Sport Ireland launched a new national code of conduct template for sporting organisations, which sets out a set of guidelines and principles that promotes the behaviour and conduct expected from our athletes, coaches, supporters, officials, club members and parents or guardians. All national governing bodies were asked to use the national template code of conduct as an opportunity to review their existing policies and procedures for handling code breaches to ensure that we have a safe and respectful environment for all involved in Irish sport. The creation of a culture of safety that promotes the welfare of children and young people engaged in sporting activities must be at the core of all national governing bodies' operations. Sport Ireland’s safeguarding guidance for children and young people in sport is a core document in this regard.

Sport Ireland has an extensive suite of guidelines and codes of practice for the protection of children in sport, consistent with child protection guidance and legislation. Last year, Sport Ireland wrote to all national governing bodies to remind them of their responsibilities and that their policies and procedures regarding player welfare must be up to date and fit for purpose.

We have made significant strides in promoting increased female participation in sport in recent years. The Irish sports monitor report for 2024 shows that female participation in sport increased to its highest level to date, at 47%. Last week, we announced the investment of €4 million under the women in sport programme for 2025.

The aforementioned measures, while positive, must of course be supported by a robust safeguarding framework for all who participate in sport. It is imperative that we demonstrate that there is simply no place for abuse of any kind against women in sport and there should be zero tolerance for any actions that endanger their welfare.

Deputy Pádraig O'Sullivan

I start by thanking the Minister of State for coming in to address this matter himself. It was remiss of me not to preface my comments by saying that if anybody has been affected by these issues, they should follow the formal complaints procedure that the FAI has encouraged people to come forward with, details of which the Minister of State has outlined. I do not raise this matter lightly. Many of us here have children. I quoted extensively from a series of correspondence that I obtained through an individual. The correspondence clearly demonstrates that this was known nine months prior to the "RTÉ Investigates" programme. That in itself is damning. I have written to the sports committee about this and it will be discussed in private session tomorrow. I will seek that representatives of the FAI come in to address the concerns I have raised this evening. I hope to have the support of some of the committee members present here tonight.

My overarching concern is that given that we entrust our children to large organisations like this, it is paramount that their safety is ensured. I will not stray into the realm of individual accusations because I do not have any information pertaining to any individual allegations. I am exclusively concentrating on the FAI's own safeguarding policy which the Minister of State has said his Department is satisfied with. I ask him to ask his officials go back and read it because I quoted extensively from it. It states specifically that no specific allegation is required in the case of any sexual allegations. It is there in black and white.

I ask the Minister of State to ask the departmental officials if they have the information that I have in my possession. If they do, I think they will have a very different view of what we are discussing here this evening. The Minister of State mentioned Sport Ireland in his response. I would also ask that in any investigation or examination Sport Ireland has done here, the same information that I have in my possession is also brought to its attention because that will also inform its future outlook on this.

I can only ask the Minister of State to reflect on what I have outlined here this evening. I do not do it lightly. I will bring it to the committee tomorrow in private session and I hope representatives from the FAI will come in to address the concerns.

Deputy Charlie McConalogue

This is an issue that my Department and Sport Ireland were aware of and had looked at. It is my Department's view, and that of Sport Ireland, that the FAI engaged appropriately with these allegations. The Deputy mentioned a particular newspaper article which has been discussed this evening. It outlines that no complaint was made to, nor any evidence of inappropriate behaviour received by, the FAI in 2023. Once it received a formal complaint in January 2024, the FAI acted and contacted the Garda and Tusla, in accordance with mandatory reporting requirements and its safeguarding and child welfare regulations.

Sport Ireland has strong criteria for safeguarding compliance. It is a compulsory requirement for all national governing bodies and is a critical element for funding to national governing bodies, NGBs. These criteria are reviewed twice annually by Sport Ireland, which works with NGBs to ensure that appropriate policies are put in place to take a proactive approach to safeguarding by identifying and mitigating risks to player welfare.

It also works with NGBs on an ongoing basis to ensure they have mechanisms in place to react appropriately and handle complaints or issues when they arise.

I reaffirm to Deputy O'Sullivan that from the point of view of my Department and of Sport Ireland in regard to any information received on this, they are of the view that the FAI engaged appropriately. It is certainly open to the Deputy or anyone else to provide any and all information they have to Sport Ireland and to the Department. Certainly, in regard to anything they have looked at so far, both my Department and Sport Ireland are of the very clear view that the FAI engaged appropriately with these allegations.

European Union

Deputy Barry Ward

As the Minister of State will know, on 23 June 2021 the Hungarian Parliament passed a law significantly curbing the rights of members of the LGBTQI+ community in Hungary. As it came into effect on 1 July 2021, next week that law will have been passed for four years. It is hugely problematic from the point of view of Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union. It clearly curbs fundamental rights that are set out there, not least freedom of expression, equality, non-discrimination, pluralism and tolerance. As a result the European Commission took a legal action against the Hungarian Government in July 2021, that is, four years ago. It is hard to discern what exactly has happened in that regard since then. While I am aware that the Commission has massively curtailed payments to Hungary, amounting to billions of euro during that time, the law has gone pretty much unabated since then. As a result, ordinary people who are members of the LGBTQI+ community in Hungary are massively curtailed, not just in their activities, their freedom of expression and their right to play a full part in society in Hungary but they are also in genuine fear of falling foul of this law and finding themselves at the end of a criminal conviction or a criminal prosecution in any event.

The European Commission stated in a tweet in 2021 announcing that it was taking the legal action against Hungary, that Europe will never allow parts of our society to be stigmatised. That is a laudable aim and I support that. Ireland also supports that goal but it does appear to have allowed them to be stigmatised during the past four years because those actions have not been taken.

It has been condemned by 17 member states, including Ireland, within the European Union. I want to put on record my support for the work the Irish Embassy in Budapest does to support the rights of LGBTQI+ people and the rights of the Pride parade in Budapest, which I understand will take place next week but which is technically against the law now in Hungary. Those efforts essentially are being ignored by Fidesz, by Viktor Orbán and the Hungarian Government. If we are seriously to respect the rights that are set down in the Treaty on European Union and if we embody them in Ireland, we need first to assure ourselves we are doing everything we can to make it clear that we oppose this and make that clear on the international stage and at European level, at European Council meetings and in all our dealings with the Hungarian Government; and second, we actually need to take concrete action.

The Minister of State should tell me what Ireland is doing and what the Commission is doing in real terms to tackle what flies in the face of fundamental principles that we associate with being part of the European Union.

We know that in Ireland we have huge support for membership of the European Union. Well over 80% people in this country recognise the value it has had for us. I would say that the same value with membership of the European Union could be ascribed to Hungary and yet, whatever it is, 157 out of 158 MPs in 2021 voted for this law. What is it that they do not see? How can we make them see it? How can we share with them the benefits of being part of a pluralist society that respects diversity, difference of opinions and difference in perspectives on things like sexuality? If we stand back and allow it to happen, then what is the point of being part of a European Union that lays down those fundamental rights for all European citizens, not just those whose governments choose to give them to them, but all European citizens, irrespective of what country they live in or under which government they live? Let us be clear in our voice on this and tell us what we can do to make this different.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Healy-Rae)

I thank Deputy Ward for raising this important issue. I apologise on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Harris. Ireland is a strong supporter of the rights of LGBTQI+ persons in Hungary. Respect for human rights and the rule of law are fundamental EU values as enshrined by Article 2 of the Treaty on European Union. The Tánaiste is very concerned by recent measures taken by the Hungarian Government to restrict the rights of LGBTQI+ persons, including the passing of legislation that allows for a ban on Pride celebrations this year. June 28 will mark the 30th anniversary of Budapest Pride, the same date as Dublin Pride and the anniversary of Stonewall.

The legal and constitutional amendments fast-tracked by the Hungarian Government in recent weeks now provide a basis to ban it under the false pretext of child protection. As a staunch advocate for the rule of law and fundamental EU values, the Tánaiste condemns this fresh attempt to target this community in Hungary by restricting their rights to freedom of expression and assembly as set out in Articles 11 and 12 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union. This move is a disturbing escalation by the Hungarian Government in ongoing attempts to curb LGBTQI+ rights. It is the latest development in a series of measures targeting civil society, independent media and minority rights, further weakening the rule of law in the country.

It is imperative that the EU uses all the tools at its disposal to address the rule of law backsliding in Hungary. The European Commission has taken legal action in the form of infringement proceedings against Hungary for its failure to abide by its obligations as an EU member state in upholding the rule of law. Ireland has supported these efforts, including by joining the Commission’s case against Hungary in relation to its so-called Child Protection Act. The opinion of the Advocate General of the Court of Justice of the European Union on this case was released on 5 June 2025, in which it considers that the child protection law infringes EU law. It suggests a free-standing breach of Article 2 should be found. I look forward to the final judgment in this case, which is expected in the autumn of this year.

Ireland also decided in February this year to intervene in the European Commission’s case against Hungary’s sovereignty protection law, which seriously threatens civil society space and independent media in Hungary. Separately, the Article 7 procedure, an EU treaty instrument, has been triggered against Hungary since 2018 due to serious breaches of the rule of law. In addition, the EU is using a range of tools to withhold a total of €18 billion in funding, including through the conditionality mechanism; rule-of-law-related so-called super-milestones in Hungary’s recovery and resilience plan; and the horizontal enabling condition of the common provision regulation that relates to compliance with the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights.

Additionally, Hungary is denied access to Horizon funding and the Erasmus programme. It is regrettable that Hungary’s access to these programmes is limited but it is essential until remediation measures are put in place to address its consistent contravention of EU law.

Ireland is a strong supporter of the EU rule of law toolbox and views it as essential that the EU has the necessary tools at its disposal to respond effectively to rule of law challenges where they arise.

Deputy Barry Ward

I thank the Minister of State. I recognise the truth of much of what he said, particularly in terms of Ireland's support for the rule of law toolbox. That is brings us to the root of this issue. I have raised the matter with the Tánaiste. I am aware of his strong stance on this and I respect that hugely. I am also aware that Ireland has a chequered history with dealing with the freedom of individuals, particularly members of the LGBTQI+ community. There is an extent to which we are people in glasshouses casting stones. However, I also recognise the fact that we have made huge progress within my lifetime on this issue, particularly in the past ten years since the referendum in 2015.

I refer to the cynical manner in which the Hungarian Government seeks to equate child protection with what it calls its anti-paedophilia law, with people who simply want to live life in the way they want to live it.

That cynical conflagration of two totally unrelated issues is a major problem. It is disturbingly cynical in the message it sends out. As Chair of the European affairs committee, this is an issue we want to look at. We are hoping to do so next week.

Here is the real question. We have joined the case and stated our case. We talk about the rule of law toolbox. We know funding is being restricted from Hungary and that clear messages are being sent from the Commission and many European Union states. It has not changed the facts. No matter what the judge advocate says in the Court of Justice of the European Union, and no matter the finding of the court in the autumn, what do we do if Hungary still thumbs its nose? What do we do if we withdraw the funding, criticise them and decry what we all know to be wrong, and they still do nothing about it? Where is the rule of law toolbox if we cannot use it to actually effect change and enforce the law we have all signed up to as part of the acquis communautaire and as part of the various treaties of fundamental rights and of functioning of the European Union? What do we do if they still say and do nothing?

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I thank the Deputy. His genuine sincerity, concern and emotion are very heartfelt and that is evident in his statements this evening. Ireland has consistently and strongly advocated for the promotion and protection of the rights of LGBT+ persons, including in our relations with Hungary. We have regularly raised our concerns about the serious rule-of-law backsliding and the targeting of civil society and minority rights in Hungary, including in direct contacts with our Hungarian interlocutors. Through our embassy in Budapest, Ireland had 21 diplomatic missions on 27 March this year in calling on Hungarian authorities to repeal the recent legislation passed that allows for a ban on Pride celebrations, including Budapest Pride. At the recent General Affairs Council on 27 May, Ireland, along with a large majority of EU member states, joined a declaration outlining our deep concern and calling on Hungary to reverse these measures.

Through the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's enlargement and fundamental values fund, we support Hungarian civil society organisations that work to protect the rule of law, civil society space and minorities, including LGBTQ+ rights, in Hungary. We will continue to work closely to monitor developments and raise our concerns as well as continuing to support civil society organisations working to defend our fundamental EU values in Hungary. Again I relay the apologies of the Tánaiste, who wanted to be here this evening to answer the Deputy directly. Like the Deputy, the Tánaiste is very sincere in his concerns about what is happening out there. There is right and wrong in the world and what is happening at present is obviously fundamentally wrong. It is good of the Deputy to raise it here this evening. I apologise on behalf of the Tánaiste in his absence.

International Protection

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

The residents of Saggart, Citywest, Rathcoole and adjacent areas today got a huge slap in the face. In very arrogant, dismissive behaviour by the Government, it issued a press statement and then the Minister, Deputy Jim O'Callaghan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Brophy went out onto the plinth and said the State was purchasing the Citywest Hotel. This came with no notice to any of the local elected representatives, not least Deputies Shane Moynihan and Emer Higgins on the Government side. On 22 May last, it first came out in the media that the Government was considering this. Since then, I have put down five parliamentary questions. I asked the Minister what the plans were, whether he could outline them and whether there would be consultation. I even used the term "enhanced consultation" because consultation has not always been such. It is more about telling people what the Government has already done rather than giving people any kind of input. There were calls for the Minister to sit down with residents' groups and representative bodies from the Saggart and Citywest area to talk about the plans.

Citywest is not just another location for a permanent IPAS centre. It was the largest hotel and conference centre in Europe. It was the home for many years of the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheiseanna. Because of ramshackle rezoning over the years, it was one of the few community facilities in the wider Rathcoole and Saggart area. When I was a councillor, going back to the start of the development plan in 2016, when the owners were looking at getting the land rezoned for large-scale residential, the residents spoke very eloquently and in large numbers about the need to protect the site. Going back to 2015, around its National Asset Management Agency period, the hotel and conference centre was operating as a profitable concern. It then turned into a Covid centre, then became a temporary location for Ukrainian refugees and then moved on to hosting IPAS.

The community has been quite balanced in pointing out the pluses and minuses. There have been instances of antisocial behaviour because if you put 2,000 people anywhere, that will be the case. It also has been the case that some of the residents have helped in Tidy Towns and other community events. The reality, however, is that this is not a built-for-purpose centre. It is a hotel and conference centre. There is a gym and leisure centre in operation. I note that the Minister said that some things would be allowed to continue. Why could he not have met the residents and gone through all of the issues in advance? That was a fair question and it was not listened to. This was presented as a fait accompli, a big slap in the face.

Saggart is one of the fastest growing and youngest areas in the country. Approximately a third of all residents of Saggart are under the age of 15. Another third of Saggart residents were not born in Saggart, which points out that Saggart is a very welcoming and diverse community. However, it does not have the facilities. There are no public areas in the Saggart, Citywest and Rathcoole locations where they can put in a lot of council amenities. Adjacent lands have been rezoned under the strategic housing developments. There have been lots of new houses but no facilities. The chance the community had of this hotel being repurposed once again for community need now appears to be gone, unless there is proper engagement and consultation now that the Government is going ahead with this plan.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I thank the Deputy most sincerely for raising this matter. I wish to convey the apologies of my colleague the Minister for Justice, Deputy Jim O’Callaghan, who regrets he cannot be here for this matter due to another commitment. On behalf of the Minister, Deputy O'Callaghan, I thank Deputy Gogarty for raising this issue and for offering me the opportunity to respond.

An opportunity has arisen for the State to purchase the Citywest campus, a former hotel complex in the outer Dublin region. The purchase is part of a long-term strategy to develop a sustainable accommodation system. It will deliver significant long-term savings to the State as it moves from licensing to ownership, and will enable Ireland to meet our requirements under the new EU pact on migration and asylum.

The site, which is already being used for both international protection and Ukrainian accommodation, currently has capacity to accommodate approximately 2,300 people between the hotel and the convention centre. When purchased, the campus will continue to be used to accommodate international protection applicants, meeting the State’s intention to increase State-owned accommodation in this sector, which is a major step forward in delivering on the programme for Government. The Citywest campus will be the foundation stone for the new screening facility and border facility and will enable a one-stop shop for processing, accommodation and supports in one location, delivering the most pivotal parts of the new migration pact.

Since 2020, the State has been leasing parts of the Citywest campus, first to support the delivery of vaccinations during Covid-19, and since May 2022, as a transit hub and accommodation centre for both beneficiaries of temporary protection and international protection applicants. The State’s current licence for the site expires at the beginning of September. The campus has become a very important multifunctional facility for the State. There is currently no alternative accommodation centre of similar scale and facilities to process and accommodate both international protection, and beneficiary of temporary protection, arrivals.

The cross-government response has been working extremely well at the Citywest campus and this has been acknowledged by all the State parties and NGOs. There are no immediate plans to increase the capacity at this site. New spaces for international protection applicants will be achieved by using the existing capacity currently being used by Ukrainians and restructures to the current layout. This means the purchase will not lead to increased pressure on local services or the community. The leisure centre on the campus is in commercial use and it is proposed it will continue to function as it currently does to ensure the community can maintain its very important access.

The Department wants to support amenities, local services and integration in this area and our community engagement team is already working closely with local community leaders, community groups and stakeholders. A significant strength that applies to the engagement programme needed at this site is that the Citywest campus already enjoys good relationships and operational partnerships in the community with State services and community representatives, including elected representatives.

Deputy Paul Nicholas Gogarty

Regarding the State's requirement to have a number of large-scale IPAS centres, I see the logic of the State trying to buy somewhere rather than pay rent. I believe, however, that such centres need to be purpose-built rather than trying to call a former hotel a suitable campus. I mentioned this to the Taoiseach before. Obviously, we are a welcoming country and many people are fleeing persecution and need our support. Equally, as I pointed out, there are economic migrants abusing the asylum process and these people need to be processed very quickly. Unfortunately, it is taking far too long. If it was not taking so long, we would not need so many IPAS centres. It should take six months for people to be in and out of the process and for a decision to be made that they are welcome because they are fleeing persecution or - and they might be the nicest people in the world - told "sorry, we do not have the capacity". This is what we are requiring.

In terms of this specific location, I am a bit worried about some of the words used, such as there being "no immediate plans to increase the capacity of this site". Reading through that after today's announcement is like hearing it will be increased down the line. There are also issues concerning the "good relationships and operational partnerships in the community". Yes, there have been very good relationships, but there have also been issues of overcrowding in the past and reports of incidents of antisocial behaviour. Saggart does not have sufficient GP services or proper Garda services. In any type of consultation, the first things to be asked include what GP levels, education facilities, types of support and leisure activities are being planned to be on site. All these things should be considered in the discussion before any purchase goes through. While there are no current plans to get rid of the leisure centre and the gym, equally, there is no opportunity for a long-term vision to repurpose this as a major hotel and conference centre again, something that was very valuable to south-west Dublin in the past and I believe should be once again.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

Once again, Deputy Gogarty's sincerity and concern are very obvious. I thank him for that. He was also very balanced. The planned facility at the site will enable the fastest and most efficient processing of asylum applications in the history of the State. Applicants who will be part of the migration pact border procedures will be fully processed in less than three months from application to the final decision, which is very important.

In terms of application numbers, this Government has seen a reduction in those applying for international protection this year from an average of 1,500 per month in 2024 to an average of 1,000 per month so far in 2025. We are, however, still trending to have the third or fourth highest annual application level in the history of the State. Reform of the processing system and the migration pact will help to curtail the need for growth in the accommodation system, but there is still a need to ensure cost-effective solutions that deliver long-term sustainability for international protection accommodation. Community engagement will focus on providing direct public information, proactively engaging with people and local media and creating a space for safe and sound dialogue.

Further and Higher Education

Deputy Jen Cummins

Community training centres, CTCs, provide an excellent education to young people in second chance education. There are 31 community training centres located around the country. Young people aged 16 to 21 who have left mainstream education before the leaving certificate can attend these centres, which provide a range of training and other supports to them, achieve QQI levels and progress to further education and employment.

I have the pleasure of being on the board of directors of one of these community training centres, Ballark community training centre in Santry. I have worked closely with this centre for several years. It started when I was the co-ordinator of Ballymun Anseo school completion programme, SCP, located very close to this centre. I have seen first-hand how these centres bring young people into a learning environment that is caring, practical and learner-centred. The staff are absolutely committed to the young people. When young people leave school early, their reintegration into education can be very complex and there needs to be patience, kindness, structure and acceptance. CTC staff are experts at this, but the CTCs are finding it challenging to recruit and keep staff as a result of the substandard salary scale they are on.

To put this into perspective, points 1 and 2 of the clerical scale available to staff in the CTCs are below the minimum wage. Managers of the community training centres earn approximately €10,000 less than the Youthreach and SCP co-ordinator salary scale, and yet they are supposed to be on the same scale. CTCs are funded by their local ETBs and have been since 2011. Prior to then, CTCs were funded by FÁS and the salary scales were linked to FÁS salary scales. When FÁS was dissolved, all the staff moved to the ETBs and were placed on public sector pay scales. They have, however, been left in limbo and - without consultation - this pay link was broken. In 2023, CTC staff were given a 5% increase, which was the first increase of its kind since 2006. It was accepted with the agreement that CTCs would be linked to the Youthreach pay scale, but this has not happened. CTCs are under the Youthreach umbrella in terms of training and education but not in terms of pay and conditions. Without this link to the public sector pay agreements, CTCs will have to continually try to argue with governments for just the crumbs they will get.

The work of the CTCs has become increasingly difficult since Covid. There has been a huge increase in the number of students attending CTCs with more complex needs than ever seen before. The Government needs to recognise and value the work being done in these centres and pay staff accordingly. The community training centres were made promises but these promises have not been kept and the staff are feeling undervalued and despondent. It is just not good enough. When the staff working with really vulnerable young people are themselves vulnerable in their pay and conditions - I have said this not only concerning workers in this sector but those in several other sectors in the education system too - they are not able to support young people who are coming back into second-chance education and do not feel valued as learners. The staff working in the CTCs are incredibly skilled at instilling confidence back into these young people so they can learn and get back on track. The cost of living in this country is extremely high and, therefore, people on wages poorer than those found in other agencies doing similar work are not on a par. This means community training centres are not attracting the staff they need so much. I urge the Minister of State to please consider what can be done to support these staff members in community training centres.

Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Marian Harkin)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. I think it might be useful at the outset for Members to understand the context of what is being raised here. Community training centres were established in 1977 as community training workshops to support young, unemployed people aged 16 to 25. Since 1988, they have been delivering the Youthreach programme. I agree with the Deputy that they do really valuable and important work. I am having the opportunity to see more of it as I travel around the country.

There are 31 CTCs throughout the country contracted by the education and training boards to deliver the Youthreach programme. This means they are grant-aided organisations. Each CTC is a non-profit company and has its own independent board of directors which is responsible for the recruitment and retention of staff. With the Deputy’s background and experience, she will know that CTCs are not public sector organisations nor are their staff designated as public servants. ETBs manage the CTCs within the parameters of the Department of public expenditure’s Circular 13/2014. This circular provides comprehensive guidelines for the management, accountability and reporting of public funds allocated through these grants.

Regarding the importance of Youthreach, Department officials maintain a strong working relationship with CTCs through IACTO, which is their representative body. This is supported by the IACTO liaison committee, which includes representatives from IACTO itself, the ETBs, SOLAS and the ETBI. Officials have advised me that the last meeting of the committee took place on 27 May. However, at that meeting it was agreed that the original purpose of that committee is now redundant and that a review of the terms and conditions will be undertaken and discussed at the next meeting, which will take place in September.

These guidelines are being developed under Circular 13/2014. It is intended the revised guidelines will address issues raised by CTCs through this liaison committee. I have to stress that the issues related to recruitment, retention and terms and conditions cannot be resolved within this committee as they are the responsibility of the CTC boards. They are outside the remit of the Department and other committee members.

Specifically in response to the Deputy’s query, the Department has no role in the employment of CTC staff, including in the areas of recruitment, terms and conditions and pay. This also applies to the ETBs, which contract the service from the CTCs, and to SOLAS, which provides funding to the ETBs. I am sorry to anyone listening for all the mention of ETBs and CTCs. The Deputy and I know what I am speaking about, however. As the Deputy said, staff in the CTCs were awarded a 5% pay increase following a WRC hearing in June 2023. Staff were awarded the increase in two increments.

Staff recruitment and retention issues have not been raised recently at the committee meetings that I spoke of. It is important to say they cannot be resolved through the liaison committee as they fall under the authority of the CTC boards.

Deputy Jen Cummins

I thank the Minister of State. It is great to raise this issue. It is great that the Minister of State is visiting these centres because they are amazing. While I understand that boards are responsible for the pay and conditions of each staff member, the funding given centrally to the community training centres is not enough. Although the staff are supposed to be put on the same pay and conditions, or pay rates, as Youthreach co-ordinators, the funding is not there to pay them at that rate. If they are supposed to get paid whatever that rate, increment or point on the scale is, boards will not be able to pay it if the funding does not come centrally. The board can decide to pay a certain rate, ultimately. We have a situation where school completion co-ordinators, for example, have had the exact same problem for the last number of years. They were brought under the ETBI, put at Youthreach scales and are all being managed like this.

If we are going to value staff members, we need to do everything we possibly can to bring them under the umbrella. While it is totally fine for there to be local arrangements and for the boards to manage them, there is no reason funding cannot be allocated to the centres which covers all things to do with pay, recruitment, retention and industrial relations. If the central budget does not reach that, they are going to lean into other things they are also struggling with. Every other organisation in the country is struggling with the need for multi-annual funding for all the increased insurance and all the things that go with a project. Someone needs to be championing these staff members to ensure they are on the correct rate and are given the right amount of money. It is about ensuring community training centres are given the right amount of funding centrally to be able to do that and making sure those staff members are valued, appreciated and paid correctly.

Deputy Marian Harkin

In her original question, Deputy Cummins raised the fact that some CTCs have a clerical officer scale on which the first two points fall below the minimum wage. In May, SOLAS informed IACTO that the Department had no objection to points below the minimum wage being removed. I am happy to see that. In fact, I would be really disappointed if that had not happened.

To come back to the general point the Deputy is making, I understand what she is saying. I have to say again that these matters relating to recruitment and retention fall under the responsibility of the individual CTC boards and are outside the Department's operational remit. I hear what she is saying about the importance and value of the work and that funding must be appropriate for what is needed.

Due to the way this is all structured, and given the parameters, the ability of the Department is constrained in this regard. All I can say is that I encourage IACTO and CTCs to feed their concerns into the development of the revised operational guidelines. I know that SIPTU is seeking a pay increase to bring CTC staff pay in line with that of Youthreach staff and that IACTO supports the claim. Again, the Department cannot respond to SIPTU's request because those decisions must be taken by the CTC boards. While there were links historically between CTC staff, certain FÁS grades and Youthreach staff, they ended in 2009 with the FEMPI legislation. As the Deputy said, in 2022, SIPTU lodged a claim for Building Momentum increases with full retrospection. Although that was rejected by the management side, after a WRC hearing in June 2023 CTC staff were awarded a 5% pay increase funded from the Department's Vote. I heard what the Deputy has said.

Schools Refurbishment

Deputy Malcolm Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for staying to this late hour to take this question about Coláiste Bhríde in Carnew, Wicklow. This is a progressive secondary school of almost 1,000 pupils which serves a predominantly rural area in south Wicklow as well as parts of north Wexford and south Carlow. The local community rightly takes great pride in this school. The whole school evaluation reports regularly speak of the positive relationships between teachers and students and that it is an inclusive and caring community. In addition to having a reputation for academic excellence, it also supports extra-curricular activities, even to the point that students involved in the Young Social Innovators led a successful campaign recently to amend, change and ensure there was junior certificate grade reform. That reform was indeed announced by the Minister, Deputy Helen McEntee, and there will now be a broader range of grades for those at junior certificate level.

While the school is very successful in what it delivers for students and the communities, the school’s buildings have not been fit for purpose for quite some time. There has been a long campaign to try to ensure that this community has adequate school facilities. In that regard, tribute must be paid to the principal of the school, Anna Gahan, the staff team, to John Naylor and the board of management and to the parents and students who have been waiting a long time. We finally saw a commitment that we would see a new school for Carnew as part of the Project Ireland bundle, which dealt with a number of schools in the region. This involves the refurbishment of the 1930s school building and the construction of a new two-to-four storey building with SEN units. It will be a state-of-the-art facility that will be critical for the community.

Preliminary planning was granted by Wicklow County Council in December 2023. From replies to parliamentary questions I have asked, we have been told that this has been at stage 2b for a while. The Minister of State will be aware that is where the final designs progress before the tender documents are issued. It is critical we get to the stage where the tender documents are issued, a contractor is appointed and work can begin. My critical question is when will stage 2b be completed. When will a tender for a contractor be awarded?

The school has also sought as part of the development that there would be groundworks for a multipurpose pitch and that this would be facilitated. That did not come in right at the beginning but the Minister of State will appreciate that with a school of almost 1,000 students, which is likely to grow because of the expanding population in north Wexford and south Wicklow, we need to have sports and recreational facilities within a school. At the moment, any of the teams that want to play a game or train, whether soccer or anything else, has to hire a bus to get to the nearest pitch. That is not acceptable for a modern and inclusive school community.

I am conscious it is coming close to midnight. Carnew in south Wicklow has often felt as if it is the Cinderella in Wicklow. I am hoping that tonight on this last question the Minister of State will be Carnew’s Prince Charming and be able to announce some good news for us this evening and give us a potential timeframe for delivery.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Healy-Rae)

The Deputy has a wonderful way with the English language. I commend him on his determination and having the patience of being here until this time tonight. I am glad to be here representing the Minister for Education and Youth, Deputy McEntee. I thank the Deputy on her behalf for raising this matter as it gives me the opportunity to provide an update to the House on the current position regarding the major school building project for Coláiste Bhríde, Carnew, County Wicklow.

Delivery of the project has been devolved to the National Development Finance Agency, NDFA, as part of the programme for school building projects. The brief for the project is to provide a new-build replacement school for a long-term projected enrolment of 1,000 pupils, including a four-classroom special educational needs base. The project is currently in the final stages of stage 2b, the post planning process, of the architectural process, which allows for detailed design and planning, obtaining the necessary statutory permissions and the preparation of tender documents. When this stage is finalised, the next stage is tendering for a contractor and then onwards to construction in due course.

The time a project takes to deliver depends on several factors, as the Deputy well knows, including scale and complexity, and is subject to the time it takes to progress through the various design stages and the statutory approval process.

While at this early stage it is not possible to provide a timeline for completion of the project, the NDFA will continue to engage directly with the school authorities to keep them fully informed of all progress.

I assure the Deputy that the Department of Education and Youth is committed to ensuring appropriate accommodation is available for the pupils in Coláiste Bhríde and will in the wider context outlined ensure that this project, as for all projects on the school building programme, is subject to the due diligence required under the public infrastructure guidelines.

Since 2020, the Department of education has invested more than €6 billion in our schools throughout the country under the national development plan, involving the completion of over 1,375 school building projects. Government support for this investment, including by way of supplementary capital funding, has delivered real benefits for school communities. A recent Government decision approved €210 million in supplementary capital funding for the Department of Education and Youth, which brings the total capital allocation for 2025 for the Department to €1.6 billion.

As part of the NDP review process, all Departments, including the Department of Education and Youth, are currently engaging with the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitalisation with respect to NDP allocations for the period 2026 to 2030. It is expected that there will be clarity on these allocations over the summer period and this will allow the Department of Education and Youth to plan its capital investment programme for the 2026 to 2030 period in line with prioritised needs and reflecting, as appropriate, wider Government priorities.

Maximising existing capacity in schools to meet needs is very important. The progression of prioritised individual projects to meet the most urgent needs in the 2026 to 2030 period that cannot be met through existing capacity across schools in the local area will be considered on a rolling basis from autumn onwards after the NDP allocations are finalised.

Deputy Malcolm Byrne

I welcome that the Minister of State indicated the stage 2b process is in its final stages. However, he knows as well as I do that the critical next step is moving to a tender so that a contractor will be appointed. With the best will in the world, even if the Minister of State announced tonight that stage 2b was complete and it was moving to tender, we would still probably be looking at more than two years by the time the new school was completed.

The neighbouring town of Gorey, my home town, has three schools, the third of which was sanctioned by the previous Minister, Deputy Foley, will soon reach capacity because the population in north Wexford and south Wicklow is growing incredibly quickly so there will be pressure for additional places in the area. That is why it is critical that Carnew gets a modern schools as soon as possible.

The other big concern for the school community is that adequate sporting facilities be made available on the site. What the school wants to see, which makes economic sense, is that the groundworks are carried out to ensure those sporting facilities can be provided while the school is being built. It is about long-term planning in the area. This has to be a priority. I appreciate the Minister of State being here at this time. I have tabled quite a number of parliamentary questions on this. He can understand how when serving such a wide area, much of it including rural communities, that this school is at its heart and it is critical we get a timeframe as to its delivery.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I am sure the Deputy’s constant support for this project will be a great help to its progression. His determination in this regard on behalf of his constituents will be acknowledged by the Government and the Minister. I thank him again for the opportunity to outline the Department of Education and Youth’s position relating to this very important project. As I have outlined, the NDFA has been engaging and will continue to engage with the school to progress this important project. I wish the Deputy every good luck in his endeavours. His determination is duly noted by the Government.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 11.59 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 18 Meitheamh 2025.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.59 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 June 2025.

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 17 Jun 2025