Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 25 Sep 2025

Vol. 1072 No. 5

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Ceisteanna ar Sonraíodh Uain Dóibh - Priority Questions

Poverty Data

Louise O'Reilly

Question:

82. Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked the Minister for Social Protection if he is aware that the measurement 'consistent poverty' obscures the full number of people both at risk of poverty and in material deprivation; if he is aware that 'consistent poverty' fails to account for housing costs; if he will consider using both 'material deprivation' and 'at risk of poverty after housing costs' as alternative measures for future national child poverty targets; if he will ensure all research commissioned on the topic of child poverty utilises both 'material deprivation' and 'at risk of poverty after housing costs' when measuring poverty; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50375/25]

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

In keeping with my form, this question is fairly straightforward. It is to do with the use of the measurement of consistent poverty, which obscures the full number of people both at risk of poverty and in material deprivation. I hope the Minister tells me he will do what I am asking, which is to consider alternative measures. We all have an interest in tackling poverty but we cannot do that unless we are measuring it properly.

Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Dara Calleary)

Gabhaim buíochas leis an Teachta as a ceist. Reducing child poverty is a key priority for the Government. I agree with the Deputy that it is important to use data that is complete, accurate and can be tracked over time. The data on poverty used by my Department is the official data the Central Statistics Office, CSO, publishes in its annual survey on income and living conditions, SILC. The headline measure produced by this survey is consistent poverty, which combines income poverty and material deprivation. The CSO also presents at risk of poverty data on a before and after housing costs basis and by tenure status.

These indicators, together with indicators on material deprivation, are relied on by my Department and reported annually in our social impact monitor, which tracks progress against the national poverty reduction targets. The Department also utilises the data from the minimum essential standard of living reports of the Vincentian Partnership for Social Justice. We fully fund the partnership to produce those reports.

While there is no one measure that adequately captures all facets of poverty, the use of the headline consistent poverty measure is useful in that it combines both those at risk of income-based poverty and those facing deprivation through a lack of basic necessities. This dual approach gives us a valuable insight into the level of social inclusion in Ireland. That is why the consistent poverty measure has long served as the national poverty benchmark. It has been endorsed by the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, and is used for the national poverty target in the cross-government social inclusion strategy, the Roadmap for Social Inclusion 2020-2025.

As the Deputy knows, we recently announced a new child poverty target utilising the consistent poverty measure. I will be making the delivery of the new child poverty target of 3% or less, down from its current level of 8.5%, a key objective of the new roadmap for social inclusion action plan to be published in 2026. I am also currently prioritising measures to address child poverty in consideration of budget 2026. I hope that clarifies the position for the Deputy.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The problem is that the level of children in consistent poverty is currently 8.5%, that figure having doubled since 2024. However, the consistent poverty measure, in and of itself, does not account for housing costs. The Minister and I both know that for reasons of Government policy, housing costs are out of control. People who are at risk of poverty or living in consistent poverty are not having the extent of that poverty measured because housing costs are not included in it. These are people who are forced to pay among the highest rents in Europe. If we look at the study from Barnardos, the parents are saying that by the time they pay for housing, in particular, and energy, the cost of which, again, is among the highest in Europe and we are told no energy credits are coming, they have nothing left at the end of the week. If the Minister is not taking housing into consideration, he is missing that key measurement. He said these measurements are relied on by his Department for the actions it takes. It needs to be measuring all the things that contribute to kids living in poverty.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I absolutely agree with the Deputy that we need accurate figures. We have long used the consistent poverty measure as the national poverty benchmark.

The recently agreed child poverty target of 3% or less is based on the consistent poverty measure, which is the critical measure of child poverty because it captures income-related and deprivation-related aspects. In addition, we use CSO data on the financial burden of housing costs, while poverty rates by tenure status are reported annually in our social impact monitor. That also tracks progress against national poverty reduction targets. Any approach to measuring poverty rates after housing costs should take into account the supports available through HAP and rent supplement.

We are preparing a new roadmap for social inclusion for 2026 to 2030 and considering the inclusion of CSO SILC data on the at-risk-of-poverty rate before and after housing as an indicator for the new roadmap. I am happy to engage with the Deputy and the social protection committee as we finalise that documentation for publication in early 2026.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Is that the dashboard that will be published in early 2026?

Deputy Dara Calleary

No, it is the new roadmap for inclusion.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Maybe when he comes back in, the Minister can tell me when the dashboard, which will allegedly contain a number of child poverty measurements, will be available. I know it will come from the child poverty unit so is not, strictly speaking, the Minister's Department, but I am sure it will be involved in it. Here is my difficulty. The consistent poverty rate for children is running at 8.5%, double what it was in 2024. When we add in housing costs, we find that 17.6% of children were at risk of poverty in 2024. The Minister is missing a key part of what he should be tackling. I welcome the fact the Minister is open to considering housing costs. They have to be considered. When looking at the whole picture, of course any supports available will be included in that. The doubling in the figure from 8.5% to 17.6% means there is potentially a significant number not being captured.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I will revert to the Deputy on the dashboard. There is huge work under way to make it as inclusive and measurable as possible. The unit is open to suggestions on what should be part of the dashboard. It is crucial it be used as a cross-governmental measure. We are looking at the whole area of housing costs. Depending on tenure and on whether a person owns or is renting, it can have a different impact on the figures. We are going through all of that with a view to making a decision on it as we prepare the social inclusion roadmap. That should be published in the first quarter of 2026.

Social Welfare Appeals

Mark Wall

Question:

83. Deputy Mark Wall asked the Minister for Social Protection to provide the number of requests for an oral hearing over the past four years; the number of oral hearings that have been held virtually, in-person and over the phone, in the past four years, in tabular form; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50021/25]

Deputy Mark Wall

I think we can all agree on the importance of oral hearings as part of the social welfare appeals process. To that end, I ask the Minister to set out the number of requests for oral hearings over the past four years, and the number of oral hearings held virtually, in person and over the phone.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I thank the Deputy. Oral hearings on social welfare appeals can be held virtually, in person or by phone. In 2024, there were 432 oral hearings, comprising 120 in person, 53 by phone and 259 virtually. The figure has fallen considerably in recent years but that has to be set against the backdrop of a number of things. When a case is assigned to an appeals officer, the officer examines the documentary evidence presented and considers if the appeal can be properly and fairly decided by way of a summary decision. Where there is a conflict in the evidence provided that would materially affect the question under consideration, the appeals officer will consider if the conflict could be resolved at an oral hearing and will make the arrangements for that hearing to take place.

Appeals officers are statutorily independent in the exercise of their powers, including with respect to whether to hold an oral hearing. However, in order to increase transparency around that, the social welfare appeals regulations 2024 came into effect on 28 April 2025. They established for the first time the legal right of an appellant to request an oral hearing. Appeals officers must consider these requests. Where it is decided not to hold an oral hearing, the appeals officer must provide reasons in writing as to why this is the case. The ability to request a hearing and to be provided with reasons as to why a hearing is or is not being held did not exist prior to these regulations.

The new appeals functionality on MyWelfare means appellants can now easily transmit documentation and evidence to the relevant scheme area and the appeals office electronically. This can mean that evidence that previously would not have been available to an appeals officer until an oral hearing can be provided earlier in the process and is resulting in appeals officers being able to decide a higher number of cases on a summary basis.

Deputy Mark Wall

I thank the Minister for the reply. My concern is that a reply to a parliamentary question from my colleague, Deputy Duncan Smith, stated that social welfare held 5,397 oral hearings in 2018 and the Minister has confirmed that the 2024 figure was down to 432. I am sure the Minister gets many requests for appeals. I know my office does. One of the mechanisms my office has used is the appeals process, in particular the oral hearing, because it gives the appellant the chance to meet somebody in person and face to face, to see the whites of their eyes and make sure every part of the evidence they can get out gets out. We seem to have gone back to a reliance on virtual interactions, which is a backward step. I ask the Minister to assure us oral hearings will continue and that where a request is made, even under those regulations, no obstacles to oral hearings are being put in place by the Department.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I can absolutely assure the Deputy that oral appeals will continue. The regulations are now there for people to request them. However, things have changed and the functionality available on MyWelfare.ie gives much more information earlier in the process, which leads to a situation where the oral hearing is not as important as it may once have been. I assure the Deputy oral appeals will continue to happen and I will continue to monitor the figures. My main focus at the moment is working with the appeals office to get through any backlogs. We have appointed 20 new appeals officers this year and are getting through the backlog.

Deputy Mark Wall

I have to disagree on the importance of oral hearings. Much as virtual contact is good and modern, I deal with many people who cannot come to terms with that new technology. I used to attend 30 to 40 oral hearings. I am sure other Members of the House used to attend them as well. I have hardly attended one in the past two years because of the lack of oral hearings being held. When you are sitting beside somebody and they are putting across their case, they have an independent person - it has to be an independent person who is not medical - and that person sees what the appellant has gone through. That is the importance of oral hearings. That is why we should allow oral hearings in every case where a request has gone in. Virtual is great but, unfortunately, for a large proportion of the people who come through my office, it is not good enough and they are not in a position to use the virtual part of MyWelfare. Oral hearings had and still have a huge part to play in the social welfare appeals process.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I do not disagree. We have all done oral hearings and they are very important. As the Deputy said, it is about seeing the white of a person's eye and having that interaction. There is a mix of the traditional oral hearing and the other options available to get a decision quicker and get through the process quicker. I assure the Deputy I do not intend to discourage the use of oral hearings. They are an important part of the process.

School Meals Programme

Louise O'Reilly

Question:

84. Deputy Louise O'Reilly asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of schools under contract to a supplier (details supplied) under the hot school meals programme; the number of these schools that exclusively cater to additional educational needs; the number that are DEIS schools; the number that are DEIS plus schools; his plan to provide parents of children affected by the cessation of the services with a stipend while a new contractor is being procured; the options for school meal provision for children affected in the meantime; if alternative cold lunches will be subsidised or provided by the Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50376/25]

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

The question relates to the sudden cessation of an element of the hot school meals programme. I am specifically interested in the number of schools impacted that are DEIS schools or that exclusively cater for children with additional educational needs. The Minister has to be aware that this news came as a bolt out of the blue for parents. It seemed there was no contingency in place when it happened. Will the Minister outline the steps taken and the contingency that will be in place for the future?

Deputy Dara Calleary

I thank the Deputy. As she knows, the hot school meals programme was established to ensure that children across Ireland have access to safe, nutritious meals during the school day. It is a core Government commitment to support children’s health, well-being, and educational outcomes. The programme is being made available to all primary schools before the end of this year. This will allow 3,200 schools, which cater for approximately 550,000 children, to avail of hot school meals currently provided by 300 suppliers across the country. Those suppliers are a diverse group of organisations from the large national supplier and regional suppliers to local restaurants and food outlets, as well as Meals on Wheels groups, which we will get the chance to discuss later. The advice my Department has given to schools is that they can procure school meals from any provider they wish as long as they meet the standards set out in the procurement documentation. The evidence is that the vast majority of small school meals suppliers are capable of meeting these standards.

The companies referred to in the Deputy's question, The Lunch Bag and Fresh Today, withdrew their school meals service at very short notice from 79 schools. Four of these schools are special schools and 38 are DEIS schools. It is highly regrettable that the providers acted in this manner, giving virtually no notice to the school communities. The Department immediately contacted the affected schools. They were sent information on 4 September advising them of the options open to them, including procuring a new hot school meals supplier quickly or serving cold lunches in the meantime. Many of them have already procured alternative suppliers, while others are in process. The Department is engaging with the schools that have not responded, to provide support. The programme is designed so that meals are provided by contracted food business operators. This ensures responsibility for food safety and legislative compliance is placed on those professional providers and not on the schools. This also ensures children benefit from a reliable, high-quality service while protecting schools from having to take on responsibilities more appropriate to the food business operators.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

We have known for months that at least one in five parents skip meals or reduce their own portions to ensure their children have enough to eat. That underlines the importance of this programme. The Minister's colleague, An Taoiseach, Deputy Micheál Martin, has said he will personally intervene in the case of one school in Cork. I have just read a newspaper article in which he confirms that. I do not think a nationally available hot school meals programme is appropriate for that type of parish-pump politics. Deputy Calleary, as the Minister, should be intervening directly to ensure that where kids are not getting a hot meal, it is made available. The Minister said his Department is engaging to provide support. Will he outline in his next response what form that is taking and if extra funding has been provided? My understanding is this information was available to the Department in advance of it being available to parents and that there was something of a time lag. Will the Minister outline that? Given that we know there are children living in poverty, and consistent poverty, access to a hot school meal is more important than ever before.

Deputy Dara Calleary

We are agreed that access to a hot school meal is vital, and that is what we are trying to secure. My Department officials have worked incredibly hard since we were informed by the school communities that the companies were withdrawing. We have set up a new process. My officials are regularly in touch with the school communities involved. Many of them have secured a replacement supplier, because there are other suppliers who approached my Department to say they would step in. There are other schools where it is harder to get a replacement provider, but my Department is working with school communities to make the replacement procurement process as easy as possible and in the interim to provide a cold meal. That is not the optimum. I want hot school meals to be provided. It has also given us an opportunity to further pursue Deputy O'Reilly's suggestion from a previous round of questions regarding local providers, such as community food providers, Meals on Wheels and others. Some schools are working with that as well. Ultimately, the aim is to ensure the legislative responsibility for food safety is paramount. That needs to be the responsibility of the operator, not the school community. That is why we have had to make some of those changes.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I will give the Minister another chance to tell me what the timeline was regarding when the Department knew about the service withdrawal and when the parents knew. This came as a bolt out of the blue. When you are living on a low income or a fixed income and you are trying to feed kids, you plan ahead. Parents had planned ahead on the basis that their kids would be getting a hot meal in the middle of the day. That has not happened for many. I am interested to know the details of the timeline between when the Minister's Department found out and when parents found out. Many parents had absolutely no warning and no chance to put contingency arrangements in place. Indeed, there was possibly no money to finance the kids to bring food to school. If the Minister does not have it, his Department should provide, in writing, a clear timeline and an explanation of why parents got absolutely no warning. I would also like to know what is being done to ensure this does not happen again, since we all agree on the importance of kids being able to access a hot school meal in the middle of the day.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I do not want to give the Deputy inaccurate information. I will provide her with the timeline. I can assure her that there was no delay. We were not informed by the supplier; we were informed by school communities. As soon as we became aware of it, we put the processes in place. The members of the team in the Department of Social Protection are continuing to work incredibly hard, for example by making phone calls very late into the evening. I want to thank them. I will provide the Deputy with a timeline. I have asked my officials to look at the make-up of those suppliers to ensure this situation does not happen again. This is not the Department's fault or the school's fault. These companies withdrew at very short notice. I will provide the accurate timeline, but the notice to school communities was a matter of days. In that context I have asked that we look at the contract documentation so this situation does not happen again, and school communities, teachers, boards of management and especially parents and children are not left in this situation again.

Programme for Government

Liam Quaide

Question:

85. Deputy Liam Quaide asked the Minister for Social Protection his plans to introduce a cost-of-disability payment to help address the significant additional costs of having a disability; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [50570/25]

Deputy Liam Quaide

Will the Minister provide some detail on the Government's commitment to introduce a permanent cost-of-disability payment to help to address the significant additional costs that come with having a disability and impose financial hardship on many of our disabled citizens?

Deputy Dara Calleary

I thank the Deputy. The programme for Government includes a range of commitments in relation to support for people with disabilities. This includes a commitment to introduce a permanent annual cost of disability support payment with a view to incrementally increasing this payment. As we know, addressing the cost of disability is not a question of income support alone. The delivery of and access to services is also key. We need all Departments and agencies of Government to work together to address the issue in a comprehensive manner. This is why the Taoiseach has established the Cabinet committee on disability with its own dedicated programme office in the Department of the Taoiseach. In addition, the recently published National Human Rights Strategy for Disabled People 2025-2030 takes a whole-of-government approach. The publication of this strategy sets out specific actions being led by named Departments, including, for my own Department, the responsibility to lead a strategic focus network on the cost of disability. The work of this network, which will include people with disabilities and advocates, will inform the approach to be taken in delivering on the programme for Government commitment. I have asked my officials to expedite this work with a view to bringing a proposal to the Government in the first half of next year.

In the meantime, I am engaged with my colleague, the Minister, Deputy Jack Chambers, to explore what might be feasible in the forthcoming budget. As the Deputy will be aware, the last number of budgets included some specific measures to assist disabled people with the rising cost of living. As part of budget 2025, for example, a €400 disability support grant for people in receipt of disability allowance, invalidity pension or blind pension was paid in November 2024 together with a €12 increase in the maximum personal rate of weekly disability payments from January 2025. We have taken a range of other measures to help people with disabilities to secure and maintain employment. We are continuing to work through our commitments in the national human rights strategy for disabled people.

Deputy Liam Quaide

I thank the Minister for his response. A recent report from the Economic and Social Research Institute and the Irish Human Rights and Equality Commission shows that the additional costs faced by disabled people are now estimated to be between 52% and 59% of disposable income. For those with more severe disabilities, that rises to as much as 93%. These costs arise across essential areas, including transport, medicines, specialised equipment, the need for personal assistance and care hours.

The report also highlights how traditional poverty measurements underestimate the levels of deprivation experienced by disabled people as they fail to take account of these unavoidable additional costs. This is a stark reflection of how far behind we are in providing meaningful support to disabled citizens.

I urge the Minister to take the evidence seriously and to introduce a specific cost-of-disability payment in the upcoming budget. People with disabilities cannot be expected to wait any longer.

Deputy Dara Calleary

That is a programme for Government commitment. As I said, we are looking at the best way to implement it and we will be working with people with disabilities and their advocates to assess it.

I have looked at the ESRI report. As the Deputy said, it estimates that the average cost of a disability ranges from €25,376 to €28,860 depending on the severity. That is much higher than other reports. We are trying to work with the ESRI to understand how it reached that figure. The most important people in this conversation are those with disabilities and their advocates. I want to engage with them in order that I can understand what will work best for them. I will see to it that this payment is implemented during the lifetime of the Government, and we will seek to ensure it is adequate.

We are continuing our other work in this space. I am focused on assisting people with disabilities who want to get back into employment and on assisting employers to support their employees with disabilities. We are looking at wage subsidies and income supports as well.

Deputy Liam Quaide

The introduction of a cost-of-disability payment has been proposed but not acted upon for far too long. Detailed research and costings were carried out by the National Disability Authority as far back as 2006 and updated in the comprehensive Indecon report of 2021. Both reports clearly demonstrated the significant additional costs that come with living with a disability. These findings have been consistently echoed by the Disability Federation of Ireland, which has long advocated for a permanent payment that recognises these unavoidable expenses.

A cost-of-disability payment would represent a structural long-term recognition of the daily additional costs of disability, covering such areas as transport, heating, medical needs, equipment and more. This is a matter of basic fairness and equality. I call on the Government to set out without delay a firm timeline for the introduction of a cost-of-disability payment and to make provision for it in the upcoming budget.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I have given the Deputy a sense of the timeline and of the work that is under way. This is priority work in our Department. I hope to bring a firm proposal to the Government in the first half of 2026. As I said, I am engaging strongly with the Minister, Deputy Chambers, about budget 2026 provisions in the meantime. I do not intend to do nothing in this budget. We are working with the Minister, Deputy Chambers, around that. I can absolutely guarantee that there is no point in our publishing a human rights strategy for disabled people which takes a whole-of-government approach, without implementing measures that make a difference. A cost-of-disability payment is one of those measures. It will be implemented during the lifetime of this Government. However, it is important that we do not impose a model on those who will be in receipt of it. I want to engage with and hear directly from people with disabilities and their advocates about exactly what kind of model will work. I will put that work and time in. I assure the Deputy it is a priority for me to introduce this payment.

Pension Provisions

Peadar Tóibín

Question:

86. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of former An Post employees whose initial applications for pensions were refused in each of the past ten years; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51086/25]

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

There are major problems with pensions at the moment. People have to fight for their pensions. Aer Lingus pensioners come to me who are still not being paid their full pensions. Pensioners come to me who say that 70,000 of them have received letters stating they may have been overpaid on their pensions. They are living in fear about that. This question relates to An Post pensioners who have been left in limbo about their pension rights. A High Court case is coming up, which seems like it is looking to deny them the income they should have as pensioners. How many pensioners are in that situation? When will it be resolved?

Deputy Dara Calleary

The contributory State pension is funded by contributions paid into the Social Insurance Fund. In general, people will qualify for the contributory State pension if they are aged 66 or over and have between 520 and 2,080, or more, reckonable contributions, of which 520 must be full-rate pay-related social insurance, PRSI, contributions. There are no issues relating to An Post employees who meet the qualifying conditions for the contributory State pension.

Contributions paid at class B, C or D, that is, those made by public servants recruited before 6 April 1995, are known as modified or reduced-rate contributions. They are not qualifying contributions for the contributory State pension. This is because those contributors pay less in social insurance contributions in return for fewer social insurance benefits. For example, class D contributors currently pay a contribution at the rate of 1% on their weekly earnings up to €1,443 and 4.1% on weekly earnings above that amount. Their employers pay a contribution of 2.45% on all employee earnings. In contrast, class A contributors pay a contribution of 4.1% on their weekly earnings. Their employers pay a contribution of 8.9% where employees' weekly earnings are €527 or less, and 11.15% where employees' weekly earnings exceed €527. Class A contributors have access to the full range of social insurance benefits.

Given that social insurance contributions are paid over people's working lifetime, during which time they may have had multiple, and in some cases overlapping, employments, been awarded credited or attributed contributions or paid for voluntary contributions, it is difficult to associate entitlement to a benefit with employment with a particular employer. This information is also not required to assess eligibility for a pension. The Department does not therefore categorise or record applications for the State pension by prior employer name, which is the information the Deputy is looking for.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

A pensioner came into my office recently who was one of six workers who started work on 25 July 1994. The rule, which the Minister mentioned, was that anyone who started before 6 April 1995 and worked on a continuous basis in an established position should be on class D PRSI contributions. The State made its decision. The scope section of the Department agreed with the decision. The class D contribution means people were entitled to retire at 60 and receive the full State pension. However, an appeal was made by An Post. Let us think about this. These are workers who committed their lives to the service of An Post. They paid a rate of PRSI which means they are entitled to a decent standard of pension on retirement and a semi-State company is in court fighting this decision. As a result, these pension entitlements are in limbo. The pensioners cannot find out what their entitlements are because of an outstanding court case brought by An Post. How come the Department cannot work out their entitlements? Why are they the subject of a court case? Will the Minister seek to resolve the matter as soon as possible?

Deputy Dara Calleary

I cannot comment on a court case, as the Deputy will understand. An Post operational matters are a matter for An Post and the relevant Minister. I have gone through the reasons we do not keep this information in the Department and how difficult it is to categorise or record applications for State pensions by prior employer name. However, if the Deputy wants to contact me later with a specific request that was not apparent in the question, I will try to address it. I want to be helpful, but I cannot get involved in an ongoing court case. However, I do want to be helpful to the Deputy and his constituent.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

I am happy to share any information I have about the constituent, but the question on the Order Paper asks how many pensioners are in a similar situation. This is not a criminal case that An Post is involved in, so I do not see why the Minister cannot give a view about the entitlement and rights of a pensioner. I know of at least 30 pensioners who are in a similar situation to this pensioner. It is my understanding that it might be the case throughout elements of the public service. Perhaps people who are employed by local authorities could be in a situation where there is confusion about what pension entitlement they have. This is a serious situation. For example, as part of the court case, papers have been requested from An Post to help the case and An Post is refusing to provide the papers, which is slowing down the case.

These workers - men and women - are getting older. This is a live situation that has to be resolved. It cannot be allowed to meander and languish in the High Court for years.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I have outlined the position regarding that information. The Department does not categorise or record applications for State pensions by prior employer name. Issues relating to An Post are a matter for the Minister for communications, who has political responsibility. It is our role in the Department to lay down the rules, set out how it can be done and make payments in relation to pensions. It is a role we take very seriously, but specific issues as to how companies deal with their employees are a matter for individual companies. I am happy to try and pursue this further for the Deputy, but, equally, whether it is criminal or civil in nature, it is not the role of the Oireachtas to get involved in a court case.

Social Welfare Code

John Paul O'Shea

Question:

87. Deputy John Paul O'Shea asked the Minister for Social Protection his plans for phasing out the means test entirely for the carer’s allowance during the lifetime of this Government, as per the programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [51028/25]

Deputy John Paul O'Shea

This question relates to an issue that goes to the very heart of compassion, dignity and fairness in our society, namely the support we provide for family carers. Across Cork North-West and, indeed, every parish in Ireland there are countless people who quietly dedicate their lives to caring for a loved one, whether that is a child with additional needs, an elderly parent or a partner who requires daily support. Will the Minister provide an update on the programme for Government commitment to phasing out the means test entirely for the carers allowance during the lifetime of this Government?

Deputy Dara Calleary

We all acknowledge the valuable role that family carers play. The Government remains fully committed to supporting carers in that role. The carer's allowance scheme is the main scheme by which the Department provides income support to carers. This year, expenditure on the carer's allowance scheme is estimated to be over €1.24 billion. There are currently almost 102,000 people in receipt of carer's allowance.

The programme for Government contains a commitment to significantly increase the income disregards for carer's allowance in each budget with a view to phasing out the means test during the lifetime of the Government. This is a major change to the carer's allowance and to the Irish social welfare system generally. It is important that we make progress in a sustainable manner without limiting our scope to support other vulnerable groups in society.

Recent progress was made in July when the weekly income disregard for carer's allowance increased from €450 to €625 for a single person and from €900 to €1,250 for carers with a spouse or partner. This amounts to cumulative increases to the disregards of €292.50 and €585 respectively, or 88%, since June 2022. These increases mean that a carer in a two-adult household with an income of approximately €69,000 can retain their full carer's payment. Even with an income of €97,000, they can retain a partial payment. It is important to note that my Department provides non-means-tested supports to carers, including carer's benefit, domiciliary care allowance and the annual carer's support grant of €2,000.

I assure the Deputy about my work in this area. We will continue to advance the programme for Government commitments in relation to care and, in particular, in respect of the means test. We will do so in a sustainable manner and over the lifetime of the Government.

Deputy John Paul O'Shea

I welcome the Minister's response and thank him for outlining the plans to phase out the means test for carer’s allowance over the lifetime of the Government. Furthermore, I acknowledge the implementation of increased disregards for the carer’s allowance in recent months. This has assisted many carers to get an increased allowance or, indeed, to qualify for one for the very first time. The phasing out of the means test will send a powerful message that Ireland recognises the irreplaceable work of carers and that we will not place unnecessary barriers in the way of those who give so much of themselves. These carers make enormous personal sacrifices. They often have to step back from work, set aside career ambitions and reconfigure their entire lives around the need of their loved ones. They do so not out of duty but out of love. Their work is immeasurable in human terms but also has undeniable social and economic value. I acknowledge that changes like this take time, that they require significant resources and that they must be implemented carefully. I believe, however, that there is a strong recognition on the part of the general public and the Government of the need to improve support for carers.

Deputy Dara Calleary

I absolutely agree with everything the Deputy said about the work of carers and family carers right across the country. That is why significant improvements have been made and we will continue to make them. I am engaging with the Minister for public expenditure around budget 2026 with a view to progressing further supports for carers.

On the work carers do, the point I would always make is that without that work there would be considerable extra pressure on our health system and on other parts of government. Without the commitment of carers, as the Deputy said, based on love and family, this country would be a lot worse off. That is why we have considerably changed and enhanced the investment in carers in recent years. That is why we have a commitment in the programme for Government to phase out the means test which, as I said, is a major change in social welfare policy. I will ensure that is completed during the lifetime of the Government.

Deputy John Paul O'Shea

I thank the Minister for his commitment today on this very important issue. Budget 2026 will be the start of the process of ending the means test for carers. I very much welcome that. I hope we can work towards that goal over the lifetime of this Government.

The Minister mentioned how there would be an extreme cost to the taxpayer with increased costs to the health system if carers did not exist. The contribution of carers is not something that should be measured by a bank balance. It is measured by the hours of care given, the love provided and the burdens carried by all carers.

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