Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 12 May 2026

Vol. 1085 No. 4

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Ceisteanna ó Cheannairí - Leaders' Questions

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Today, front-line emergency workers are on strike. Paramedics, advanced paramedics, specialist paramedics, emergency medical technicians, EMTs, and supervisors are all on strike. People who save lives are on the picket line. They stand there as a result of the Government's refusal to resolve long-standing issues relating to pay and conditions and staffing. Ambulance workers do not want to be on strike; they want to be at work helping people and saving lives. The Government, however, forces them to fight for respect, recognition and fair pay. It is to their credit that they will continue to respond to life-threatening situations during this stoppage.

This strike could have been avoided, but the Government has let the situation fester for six years. Back in 2020, an independent report recommended the modernisation of ambulance services. This was to be driven by the upskilling of front-line staff and the delivery of pay that recognised their enhanced roles. Ambulance workers kept their side of the deal. They have taken on advanced training, education and additional responsibilities. They have transformed this service from a transport service to full pre-hospital emergency care.

The Government broke its side of the deal, however. For years now, it has refused to deliver the fair pay ambulance workers deserve. It has left the ambulance system stretched to breaking point. Six years ago, the Government was told that more than 2,500 additional ambulance workers would be needed by this year. Only 500 have been recruited since. Overworked paramedics are under extreme pressure as a result and are struggling to plug the gap caused by acute staff shortages, and patients pay the price. People are left waiting far too long for ambulances. The situation is particularly bad in rural areas, where it can be hundreds of miles to the nearest hospital. People have died after delays in an ambulance getting to them. The Taoiseach is aware of this. I previously raised with him the harrowing death of Stephen Lavelle in Mayo, and there have been others.

I spoke to one paramedic yesterday who told me that the workers have children to feed, bills to pay, rent, mortgages and kids in college in respect of whom they have to pay big fees. She said that a strike was the last thing they wanted but that they had no other option. She also said that the matter could be sorted out at the stroke of a pen if the Minister just looked at the work they do and ensured they are paid fairly. The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, refuses to intervene, however. Yesterday, at a meeting in Clare, she shocked people when she referred to paramedics and EMTs as ambulance drivers.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

Excuse me?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

There is the problem in a nutshell. The Government is blind to the expertise and skill of those who save lives every day. It asks ambulance workers to upskill and then refuses to pay for the upskilling properly.

Is iad Fianna Fáil agus Fine Gael atá freagrach do staid na seirbhíse otharchairr inniu. Is teip ghlan é nár chuir siad pá cóir ar fáil d'oibrithe. D'fhág siad iad gan aon rogha. Ní féidir leanúint mar sin. Caithfidh an Rialtas idirghabháil a dhéanamh chun teacht ar réiteach láithreach.

The Government's inaction and refusal to listen has effectively left people without an ambulance service today. What is the Taoiseach going to do about it? So far, he has stood back and acted as a commentator but he is not a commentator; he is the Taoiseach. The striking ambulance workers are right to demand fair pay, proper conditions and safe staffing. When will the Government deliver?

The Taoiseach

I must say that is a very dishonest portrayal and presentation of the situation. In her heart of hearts, Deputy McDonald must know that. It is very dishonest and a distortion of what has actually happened. Surely she realises that the HSE has been engaged with the trade unions on this issue for quite some time. By the way, for well over two decades now, the State has invested very significantly in the modernisation and transformation of our National Ambulance Service, pre-emergency hospital care and the first responder area. That has been a continuing reality for well over two decades. To be fair to all involved, including those working on the front line, they have participated in that transformation. They sought it. In the early part of the 2000s, I was involved in establishing the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council.

With regard to this current dispute, the State has always accepted that pay structures need to be modernised. Previous engagements at the WRC actually concluded in very significant outcomes. In particular, the State offered pay increases of between 3% and 14%, depending on the grade and so on, linked to reform. That was on top of the 9.25% increase under the current public service pay agreement. Union leadership recommended this proposal to their members. How then can the Deputy say that we refused to resolve the issue, forced them to fight and let this fester for six years?

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Because you have.

The Taoiseach

Negotiations happened-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

I am sorry a Cheann Comhairle but the question was put to me.

The Taoiseach

Negotiations happened and there was an agreed outcome. The two unions recommended the agreement to their members. The members were entitled to vote against it. I accept that point but the Deputy's portrayal of this is clearly dishonest when set against the facts. This is not something we should play politics with. People need the services of first responders. The HSE, the Government and I are all saying that the only way to resolve this is through dialogue and exhausting the well-established industrial relations machinery of the State, whether the WRC or the Labour Court. It is very clear that the HSE remains available to meet and engage with the unions. There will have to be discussions on this.

The investment has been significant. Overall funding has increased 41%, to €285 million, between 2022 and 2025. A 41% increase is significant. Staffing is up 28%, bringing total numbers to 2,655. About €126 million has been invested in the ambulance fleet. A further investment of €20 million is planned for 2026, with additional recruitment expected to bring the total workforce up by a further 263. There are also plans to deliver 21 extra crewed ambulances operating at peak demand, four additional intermediate care vehicles and the continued development of clinical hubs and alternative care pathways.

With regard to reforms, strengthening workforce availability and supporting new models of care, including the expanded use of special paramedics in community and urgent care settings, formed part of what was negotiated. Workforce availability measures related to night-time and weekend services and so on. Critical care retrieval and air ambulance services were also to be expanded. This is all part of what was negotiated with the unions, as was wider geographic and 24-7 coverage. Modern clinical roles were also to be recognised and grading and pay structures were to be updated to reflect the evolution of paramedic and specialist paramedic roles into autonomous, degree-qualified and professionally regulated positions. That was all negotiated by Government in good faith.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

If everything is so hunky-dory, why are they on strike? Is the Taoiseach trying to suggest that the ambulance workers are wrong? Is he trying to suggest they are imagining the circumstances they are in? Here is the core dishonesty in the Taoiseach's reply. This situation has dragged on for six years and the Government has demonstrated an absence of good faith and respect.

It asked the paramedics to step up. It asked them to upskill, to retrain and to take on greater responsibilities. They have done all of that. They were happy to do it, because they want to provide the most excellent service they can. For its part, the Government promised recognition, staffing and fair pay and it has not fulfilled that. The Government has left them understaffed, overworked and underpaid. That is why they are on the picket line today. The Minister said the quiet bit out loud. Ambulance drivers is how she described skilled professionals and paramedics.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time is up. The Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Government has on three occasions taken a confrontational approach to workers-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, the Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

-----namely with the SNAs, the agricultural contractors and farmers.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy McDonald, your time is up. You are out of order.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

It is now taking the same approach with the ambulance workers. When will it act in good faith with these people?

An Ceann Comhairle

Prepare in time, Deputy.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy again ignored the core reality that the HSE negotiated this with the unions. The unions recommended what was negotiated to the membership.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

And the workers rejected it.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy has ignored that reality.

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

And what?

An Ceann Comhairle

Allow the answer.

The Taoiseach

That is not festering. That is not delaying. That is not letting things drift. There was substantive agreement which would modernise it even further and draw in a lot more resources and investment, and there is an increase of between 3% and 14% on top of the 9.5% increase. That is substantial by any yardstick in terms of public service pay and increases. However, the Deputy ignores all of that. As far as she is concerned-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

Never mind me, what about the workers?

The Taoiseach

The Deputy should agree with me in saying that they should get back into talks. It is the only way to do this. There have to be discussions and dialogue.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

With no preconditions.

The Taoiseach

It is the only way we can resolve any disputes-----

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

Who is going to negotiate if you are going to break promises?

The Taoiseach

-----in the public service or in the private sector for that matter. We have good industrial relations machinery, and it should be used properly.

Deputy Eoin Ó Broin

It is not working.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

There is evidence that it is broken.

The Taoiseach

I believe it can be-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you. I call Deputy Bacik.

The Tánaiste

-----and it can pave a pathway to resolve this dispute.

An Ceann Comhairle

Your time is up, Taoiseach.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

We are increasingly seeing the consequences of this Government's failure to support working people. Today, National Ambulance Service workers are on picket lines across the country. Our ambulance drivers and paramedics, who do such heroic front-line work, have been driven to strike over pay and conditions. Like so many, they are struggling to make ends meet on their current pay rates. As a result, the ambulance service cannot recruit or retain the staff it needs. Crews are being asked to provide increasingly complex care, under relentless pressure. This is unfair and, above all, unsafe.

Those involved have my solidarity and that of the Labour Party colleagues today. It is not just ambulance staff. Across communities, people are grappling to get by, instead of being able to get on because of the Government's policies. Just like in the eighties, a generation of young people is again facing a choice between adulthood in their childhood bedrooms or a new life overseas. Unlike the eighties, there is no shortage of jobs here. Instead, runaway costs and a poverty of Government ambition on housing and public services are driving them away. Tá siad ag dul thar lear ag lorg oibre. Tá siad ag dul ar imirce. Níl rogha acu ach imeacht thar sáile. That is having devastating effects. Last week in Glasnevin, I met a woman in tears who told me, in her words, that she was about to lose her second child to emigration. Her children, like so many others, are leaving Ireland because they see no future for themselves here and have no prospect of owning or having a home of their own. A former constituent who is now living in Perth told me that from his graduating medicine class of 350, 100 have joined him in Australia. That is an extraordinary figure. More extraordinarily, 60 of his classmates are working in the same hospital with him. He said the move has been made easier. although it is far away, because there are so many Irish people his own age there with him. He said that life is just so much easier there.

The fighting talk from the Minister, Deputy Chambers, this week is an admission that the Government is not spending wisely. We know, and Labour has said, that before the election, money was no object. The Government was rolling out gimmicks to buy people’s votes with their own money. Now, however, when communities need supports, it has deserted them while continuing to favour the burger barons and the big builders. When the Government's hare-brained VAT cut comes in on 1 July, working families will still be worse off. Who will not be worse off? McDonald's franchisees across the country stand to be €20 million better off. Supermac's, with revenues of nearly €300 million, will save €12 million due to the VAT cut. There is no evidence that this will be passed on to consumers.

The message the Government is sending to ordinary people is that they are on their own and the Government has made its choice. However, there is another choice. Last week, Labour put forward a mini-budget that would offer a substantial package for PAYE workers and struggling families. We are asking the Taoiseach if, tomorrow night when it comes to the vote on our mini-budget, he will support it. Will he support the targeted measures that will actually help households in this cost-of-living crisis?

The Taoiseach

Regarding the National Ambulance Service and the dispute, I already outlined how the Government entered into good faith negotiations and agreed a very comprehensive outcome. The unions recommended that outcome to their members. It was defeated by the members. No one can charge the Government with acting in bad faith in respect of this. We acted in good faith and will continue to act in good faith, and the HSE is as well. There is a way to resolve it, which has to be through the industrial relations machinery of the State. I would urge all involved to engage in dialogue to resolve this.

Deputy Bacik referred to the 1980s. For God's sake, there was 17.5% unemployment in the 1980s. It was shocking. Do not compare the 1980s to now. It does not-----

Deputy Ged Nash

There are jobs now.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I made-----

The Taoiseach

I lived through it. There is no comparison. It was depression after depression-----

Deputy Mary Lou McDonald

The Taoiseach did not just live through it. He-----

The Taoiseach

-----because of decisions that were made at the time. There is no comparison to the current day. We need to have a sense of perspective in how we debate things. Yet, young people do leave the country for different reasons. The housing issue is similar all over the world. It is far more difficult to buy a house in Canada or Australia, for example, than in Ireland.

(Interruptions).

The Taoiseach

It is. I have talked to young people who have been to Australia and Canada. In 2025, about 31,000 Irish came back into the country and 35,000 went out. Our population has grown exponentially over the last two to three decades. The Deputy must know that. Employment went up by 8.5% between 2020 and 2025. It went up 52% between 1995 and 2025. Therein lies the challenge to public expenditure and services. I would acknowledge that. The overall size of the economy is growing significantly. Our GDP, GNI*, whichever way you want to measure it, has grown substantially over the last decade. The population has grown with it and, therefore, the challenge to meet public services is also growing with that in terms of education, health, policing, and so on. That brings its own challenges. We then add onto that four to five major global seismic shocks, from Brexit to the pandemic, the war in Ukraine, tariffs from America and the war in the Middle East. Yet, the Irish economy is staying resilient. Employment is staying very resilient in terms of the number of people who are employed in our economy - over 2.8 million, which is a record in the history of the State.

I accept that there are challenges and many issues, the most important one being housing in terms of enabling young people to buy houses that they can afford and rent, and that we can provide social housing for those who cannot do that.

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I always acknowledge the global shocks and global context in which the Government has to make responses. I acknowledged that it was a different context to the 1980s, but the similarity is that we are losing many of our young people, who have come through medical school here and see a better life and future for themselves in Australia, for example. Here at home, it is the Government's response that has caused and exacerbated the cost-of-living crisis. Notwithstanding the global shocks, there are choices that the Government made and could still make. That is why we put forward the mini-budget last week, namely, to put forward to the Government an alternative set of choices and a set of targeted supports, not VAT cuts that benefited large businesses, but targeted supports for working families and PAYE workers who felt left behind. The Taoiseach is out canvassing, as I am, across Galway West and Dublin Central. He is hearing it, too. People are feeling this in their pockets and their families and young people are leaving the country.

The Taoiseach

Ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Tá an Rialtas ag déanamh gach aon dícheall cabhair agus tacaíocht a thabhairt do dhaoine agus do theaghlaigh atá faoi bhrú. Níl aon amhras faoi sin. Bhí pacáiste mór againn le déanaí de luach €750 milliún. Sin a bhí i gceist againn chun an brú sin a ísliú. We have not exacerbated the global situation.

This is a ridiculous assertion. How is allocating €750 million to the haulage industry, to farmers, to contractors, and-----

Deputy Ivana Bacik

To PAYE workers?

The Taoiseach

-----to PAYE workers, yes, in terms of the reduction in diesel and petrol, which is universal across the board, exacerbating a global crisis? There are challenges and pressures on families and certainly the global situation is overwhelmingly responsible for that. Everybody knows that. There is a war in the Middle East that is resulting in a 20% contraction-----

Deputy Ivana Bacik

I acknowledged that.

The Taoiseach

-----of vital supplies and that is a big problem.

Deputy Holly Cairns

Today workers in the ambulance service are on strike. This is a last resort which has been taken by front-line workers who have been left with no other option. We all know how hard paramedics and emergency medical technicians work and we all know the immense responsibility that comes with that role.

I spoke to paramedics today who came off a 12-hour shift and are now on picket lines ready to work another shift in a few hours. These are workers who go above and beyond, who do the most important work and who even volunteer after they finish work to provide that crucial emergency care. They spoke about how much they had to upskill over the years so they can provide better and faster treatment to patients and how the evolving nature of their role has not been recognised by this or any previous Government. Instead, these workers have been ignored for years.

Not only are these essential workers badly paid but they are not adequately resourced. The service is so understaffed that personnel numbers need to be doubled by hiring 1,800 workers. Is it any wonder the service is so stretched on the ground or that this is having very serious consequences for patients?

In my constituency of Cork South-West, I have been contacted by people who had to wait four hours for an ambulance. Imagine seeing a loved one in serious medical distress and waiting for hours for an ambulance to arrive. It is horrific and is the result of years of underfunding, and it is something that people in rural Ireland have unfortunately come to expect.

This is not the fault of ambulance workers who do their very best. The blame lies squarely with a Government that expects an ambulance service to run on fumes and workers' goodwill.

It is outrageous that this Government has allowed things to deteriorate to where we are today. Ambulance workers on strike, with the service running at 46% capacity. What does the Government have to say to those people who have been fighting to resolve these issues for years? The bottom line is that staff in the ambulance service must be fairly paid and recognised for the essential and skilled work that they do.

An independent report published six years ago has set out how that can be done but instead of just implementing the report as recommended by the Labour Court, attempts have been made to introduce preconditions which would see the number of trained paramedics in a crew go from two to one and in some instances actually reduce people's pay. You could not make it up.

This is not something that workers can or should agree to. This is now beyond a crisis, and this dispute must be brought to an end. Will the Government commit to dropping those preconditions and adopting the McHugh and Crabtree report?

The Taoiseach

Again, it was successive Governments that invested and took the policy decisions to change the whole nature of the first responder sector. The Deputy just made a comment that no previous Government ever did anything about this. It is such an outrageous comment to make and there is no reality attached to it at all. However, the Deputy thinks that she come in and just say it and that is grand. How does the Deputy think it happened? How does she think the Pre-Hospital Emergency Care Council was established? How was the first responder system and the professionalisation of the whole area developed?

Yes, all involved were fantastic in going with it and having the ambition to do it but let us not make throwaway statements that no one cared a damn about it until now when the Deputy got up to speak. That is ridiculous. The bottom line is this: genuine negotiations went on between the HSE and the unions. The unions agreed to put the proposals and recommended the proposals, which all of the Opposition Members ignore. They seem to be saying that no matter what is sought, just agree it please. There are always negotiations in situations like this.

We want to modernise. We accept it even further. We want to invest more. There is more funding on the table for investment. There has been very significant investment. Now, there are pressures on workers in that sector. Of that there is no doubt.

Reforms are important in public expenditure as well. We can always do things better and more efficiently and effectively, but the Deputy seems to be saying for us to forget all about reform. I do not think that is a sustainable position. Neither did the unions, for that matter, and correctly so.

Fantastic work is being done on the front line. We affirm it. We want to get this resolved. There is only way to resolve it, and that is through mediation and dialogue. I am confident that it can be resolved, the issues can be netted out and we can get to a conclusion. There have been tremendous strides made, despite what the Deputy has said, in this area in my lifetime, and certainly over the past two decades, because of decisions to change policy and professionalise emergency medical technicians and the entire service. That has been very effective because it complements and supports the acute hospital service. In other words, the first responder is the key person to anyone whose life is in danger or who has been in an accident. We have professionalised the service, and that all of those involved undertook the additional academic work, qualifications and so on is to their credit. No one is disputing that. The State has accepted from day 1 that pay structures need to be modernised. That was the subject matter of a previous engagement at the WRC, which concluded with very significant outcomes. I outlined those earlier. They were significant outcomes, but they fell at the ballot. We need to get this sorted.

Deputy Holly Cairns

I said that neither this nor any previous Government had acknowledged in terms of pay and conditions how much workers in the National Ambulance Service had upskilled.

The Taoiseach

That is nonsense.

Deputy Holly Cairns

In the past 15 years, they have gone from essentially being a patient transfer service to providing nearly accident and emergency-style services in any given situation.

The Taoiseach

We know.

Deputy Holly Cairns

It has not been acknowledged-----

The Taoiseach

It has.

Deputy Holly Cairns

-----that their pay should be representative of that. That is the truth. They are on picket lines because of that. I say to the Taoiseach and the Minister, who is tutting over at me, that paramedics have the same responsibility and amount of training as other medical professionals but are paid significantly less. That is fundamentally unfair. The Taoiseach and Minister must at least recognise that. The paramedics are going into a pay dispute and being told that, in order to get a pay rise, they have to accept a reduction in the number of trained paramedics in a crew and that, due to conditions around overtime, some of their pay might be decreased. It is ridiculous. Will the Government drop the precondition around pay?

The Taoiseach

First of all, Deputy, we are not going to negotiate an industrial relations agreement paragraph by paragraph in the Chamber. It is not feasible and we are not going to do it, but what I have said from day 1 is that there should be dialogue. The HSE remains available for engagement-----

Deputy Holly Cairns

These workers have been waiting for six years.

The Taoiseach

-----with the trade unions on this matter. That is the sensible way to resolve this. Anyone involved in industrial relations over the years realises and knows that. By the way, we are long gone from the day of ministerial interventions in every single dispute that could potentially arise. That day is gone. We have a very sophisticated way of resolving disputes that involves experienced people. There must be a will on both sides to resolve it. There is a will on the Government’s side to resolve it, and I am sure there is, too, on the union side, but people should enter into discussions and get into dialogue.

Deputy Paul Lawless

We are now over a month since the fuel protests and not a single cent of the Government’s fuel subsidy has been paid out to farmers and contractors. This scheme was announced to great fanfare to quell the protests, but the application process only opened in recent days. Farmers and contractors still do not know how much they will qualify for because the scheme is capped. The window for applications closes on 27 May, which is during one of the busiest times for farmers, contractors and accountants when they are buried with paperwork, basic income support for sustainability scheme, BISS, applications, VAT returns, etc.

The scheme itself is deeply unfair. Applicants must produce receipts for the entire 12 months of the year. They are then paid a subsidy based on five fifths of their returns from the previous year.

Farmers do not use fuel evenly across the year. It is heavily concentrated in the spring and in the summer, at a time when silage needs to be cut, fields need to be ploughed and tilled and crops are harvested. Calculating the payment on a monthly average from the previous year is deeply wrong. It is systematically flawed and unfair on farmers.

I want to turn to the figures around the carbon tax. The statistics released to Aontú in replies to parliamentary questions tell a very different story to the narrative that the Taoiseach's Government is selling. The Government is on track to collect an additional €200 million more this year than last year. We also know that half a billion euro was collected in carbon taxes from 2020 to 2023 that was never spent on climate action measures. Essentially, half a billion euro is left over and not needed. The NORA levy is another tax that has generated half a billion euro since 2020. That account sits in surplus in the region of a quarter of a billion euro. This is a surplus of €278 million at a time when farmers are desperately crying out for help, at a time when margins in the agri-sector have never been as tight, at a time when inputs are going sky high and revenue is falling.

Is the Government misleading the House in relation to carbon taxes and the necessity that the Taoiseach outlines? If it is all so necessary, why is so much money sitting in surplus? Why is so much carbon tax remaining unspent?

An Ceann Comhairle

Thank you, Deputy. Taoiseach to respond.

Deputy Paul Lawless

My question to the Taoiseach-----

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's question time is up.

Deputy Paul Lawless

Does the Taoiseach accept that the fuel subsidy package is totally inadequate for farmers and contractors?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy's time is up. You should prepare in time.

The Taoiseach

First of all, ní aontaím leis an Teachta. Pacáiste cuimsitheach atá ann i dtaobh na feirmeoirí agus na daoine atá ag obair san fheirmeoireacht. Suas le €100 milliúin atá i gceist le haghaidh na míonna sonracha. I do not accept the Deputy's proposition that the fuel subsidy scheme for farmers and agricultural contractors is inadequate. It is a comprehensive scheme that was worked out in discussions with representative organisations. There has to be some methodology attached to it. The Deputy has not come up with any alternative but there has to be a clear methodology designed. The Minister for agriculture has worked with the agricultural organisations and the representative organisations in respect of that and every effort will be made to support farmers and contractors in that regard. The Minister for Transport on the other hand is dealing with the haulage industry, which is also critical. It is endeavouring to base it on previous usage, which I think is reasonable, because that would give us some indication of the needs and the additionality in terms of the costs that have undoubtedly been incurred because of the war in Iran and the increase in fuel prices globally as a result of that.

The revenues from the carbon tax are used to support lower-income households, farmers, and indeed the retrofitting programme itself. Since 2020, €4.2 billion has been allocated from carbon tax revenues for all of those purposes. The ESRI analysis shows that lower-income households are net beneficiaries due to accompanying social protection measures. For example, in 2025 there was some €558 million for residential and community upgrades, including solar PV. That was a significant increase on the previous year. There was about €350 million for welfare measures this year - working family payment, child support payment, and the extension of fuel allowance eligibility - all coming from the revenue from the carbon tax. The Deputy has been a big advocate for the fuel allowance and has been saying we should increase it even more. This substantial revenue comes from the carbon tax revenue.

In agriculture, €173 million has been allocated to farmers through agri-environmental schemes, including funding for ACRES under the CAP strategic plan. Between 2020 and mid-2025 about €366 million was allocated to agri-climate supports - to farmers, basically - through a variety of schemes.

That is income to farmers. The ACRES scheme alone is about €1.6 billion and the bulk of that is from the Exchequer.

Deputy Paul Lawless

The very clear methodology we outlined over the fuel protest was to scrap carbon tax because that would have provided an immediate relief to farmers and contractors who desperately needed it. Instead we are now a month on from the fuel protest at a time when the cost of fuel is still very high. Green diesel is still extraordinarily high in terms of last year's figures and there has been no relief and many farmers have no idea when they will receive that relief. That is what the Government should have done. It should have removed the carbon tax. The Taoiseach's has made the point on many occasions that the carbon tax is necessary. The actual data says otherwise. Some €500 million is unspent in relation to carbon charges. Is it the Government's intention to increase carbon tax year after year, irrespective of the price of fuel? Is it the Government's intention to increase carbon tax again this October?

The Taoiseach

If the Deputy wants to scrap it entirely, just like that, it would be huge money. Has he costed that?

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

€1.1 billion.

An Ceann Comhairle

That was a rhetorical question.

The Taoiseach

Where is the Deputy going to find it? I am asking the rhetorical question. He will ask for another billion somewhere else, and another billion somewhere else, and another billion over here. That has been Aontú's performance all year.

(Interruptions).

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy, you are not special. Do not start.

The Taoiseach

Aontú expects us to magic up money for farmers, magic up money for those on social protection and magic up money for tax cuts for working people. We have to magic all that up as well. We have to magic up money for education, magic up money for social protection and keep abolishing any tax that exists. That is Aontú's approach. It is fantasy land.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

It is not the approach.

The Taoiseach

You are not living in the real world. We will spend all of the carbon tax revenue-----

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

It is one third of the children's hospital overrun.

The Taoiseach

-----on vital areas to do with climate, energy efficiency and retrofitting. That is the thing to do, and farmers as well, by the way.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

And BAM.

An Ceann Comhairle

Before I move to the Chief Whip, I welcome on behalf of Deputy John Clendennen the ACCS all-Ireland debating champions from Gallen Community School in Ferbane, County Offaly. I am sure you are learning a lot here. I would also like to welcome Scoil Mhuire Buncrana, who are guests of Deputy Padraig Mac Lochlainn.

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