Ensuring our Skills, Training and Innovation Systems Keep Pace in a Changing World: Statements (Resumed)

Deputy Donna McGettigan

I wish the Minister’s grand aunt a happy 100th birthday. It is a great achievement to have.

I welcome this debate on ensuring our skills, training and innovation systems are kept up to date in a rapidly advancing world. Technology continues to evolve at a pace that means if, as a country, we are not investing enough in skills, research and innovation, we will be left behind very quickly. The world of work is changing before our eyes. Artificial intelligence, automation, green technologies and digital transformation are already reshaping entire industries and Ireland cannot afford to stand still while other countries race ahead. That is why we need proper investment in these sectors to provide opportunities into the future. Harnessing these opportunities will help create well-paid sustainable jobs, further develop Ireland’s capacity to attract foreign direct investment and strengthen indigenous enterprise while contributing significantly to the economy across the island. However, investment cannot simply be talked about; it must be delivered.

An OECD Ireland skills strategy report released in 2023 raised urgent concerns about the readiness of Irish adults to adapt to changes in the world of work. Despite a high proportion of adults holding third level qualifications, the report highlighted a serious lack of essential upskilling and lifelong learning participation placing many Irish workers at risk falling behind. The figures speak for themselves. Only 14% of the adult population engaged in education and training in 2021. In comparison, countries such as Sweden and Finland reported rates of 35% and 31%, respectively. That is a stark warning signal and emphasises the urgent need for increased investment in lifelong learning initiatives. Workers should not have to choose between paying bills an improving their qualifications. Education and training must be accessible throughout a person’s life and not just at the beginning of it. Sinn Féin believes in building a fairer economy where workers are supported to adapt and thrive in changing circumstances.

Just this week the IMF warned that Ireland is more exposed to AI than many advanced economies because of our concentration of information and communication technologies, financial services and other knowledge-intensive industries. The IMF made clear that we need to better prepare our labour market for the impact of AI. That preparation starts with Government taking skills training and lifelong learning seriously.

We recognise the enormous benefits and potential AI can bring by improving public services, increasing productivity and driving innovation, but we do not naively look upon AI as an intrinsic force for good. There is also significant potential for harm, from job displacement and misinformation to abuses of privacy. For that reason, AI must be robustly regulated, with workers and communities protected as technology advances.

Alongside investment in digital skills, we need to remove barriers to apprenticeships and trades. Apprenticeships are critical to delivering the homes, schools, hospitals and infrastructure that our country desperately needs.

If we are serious about future-proofing our economy, we must also address the crisis in higher education and research. Third level institutions and their ability to carry out world-class research and development are at a crucial juncture. There has been massive under-investment in research and higher education over the past decade. Targeted all-island intervention is needed to ensure that research facilities are fully equipped to deliver the knowledge skills needed for both multinational employers and indigenous Irish firms. Failure to invest now will have negative consequences for future growth, innovation and job creation.

Irish unity would create significant opportunities for greater co-operation between third level institutions across the island. Linking research facilities on an all-island basis would provide greater co-ordination, stronger collaboration and the potential to accelerate Irish scientific and technological advances for the benefit of everyone who lives on this island.

We also need to listen carefully to what industry is telling us. IBEC’s Open for Business campaign has highlighted the urgent need to accelerate infrastructure projects across the State. Concerningly, IBEC’s skills survey revealed that 82% of Irish firms are reporting significant skills gaps in their workforce, and this damages our competitiveness. We cannot build a resilient economy while failing to invest in the workforce needed to sustain it.

To prevent talent gaps and keep pace with rapid change, we need ambitious investment in renewable energy, offshore wind, grid connectivity and innovation capacity. The green transition presents enormous opportunities for skilled employment and regional development, if properly planned. Success in this evolving landscape requires us to forecast future shifts, build adaptable skill sets and actively shape the future instead of reacting to it after the fact. Navigating an increasingly unpredictable global market means our top priority must be future-proofing Ireland and continuously upskilling our talent base. That requires long-term thinking and sustained investment.

Deputy Rose Conway-Walsh

I will set my script down and instead talk to the Minister about my biggest concern at the moment, namely, youth unemployment. It is at approximately 12% and could grow further. Graduates and their parents and families have invested in education to the point where they are coming out with four or maybe six years of education, but they do not have employment opportunities in their own country. Obviously, whatever strategies we have are not working when we take that as a measure of what is happening today. It is a huge concern. I want the Minister to specifically put actions in place to ensure those people can work in their own country.

There are also too many barriers. I spoke with a physiotherapist the other day. In the first instance, we did not have enough college places for people like her and, as a result, they had to train in the Netherlands. As part of their registration, they had to come back to do a placement in an acute hospital. They found out, however, that because they were forced to get their education abroad, no placement was available for them in an acute hospital. They find themselves being forced to emigrate and work in another country when we are desperate for physiotherapists here. There are too many blockages and I want the Minister to examine and remove them.

I also want the Minister to work, as my colleague said, on an all-island basis. We need a labour force that covers the whole of the island. There are too many impediments to having that workforce right across the island.

The other concern is that we may find ourselves in a situation, just like with Covalen, Meta and others, where people are suddenly without jobs. Imagine a young couple or individual working for such a company. They may have debts, but they will also have huge obligations, such as rent or a mortgage and all of those things. Those people may suddenly find they do not have a job any more. The Minister must speak to the Minister, Deputy Burke, about this. I have been trying to get through to him for months now about the need to have a plan in place so that when there is an announcement made about job losses, there is one point of contact for those workers. That point of contact would be able to advise them about opportunities for their start-up enterprises, the immediate supports that are available and securing new employment.

I also see an opportunity in this regard. We have lost so much expertise within government. We need much more expertise inside Departments. Where we have young, qualified people coming out of college or people who have been unfortunate enough to lose their jobs, we need to be taking those skills inside government to build up the necessary expertise so that we are not continuously outsourcing and taking consultants on. We should be building that capacity in Departments, whatever Department it might be, right across government. This outsourcing that has been done for years has left us vulnerable to outside influences. Many things need to be done in this regard, rather than mere written strategies.

Deputy Mairéad Farrell

One of my constituents is an apprentice heavy vehicle mechanic. When he signed up for the course, it was advertised as a four-year apprenticeship. While it was a big commitment, it was an investment in himself that he wanted to make. It is, however, a commitment that he would likely not have made had he known how his training would pan out. In January 2025, he should have started the off-the-job training aspect of his course, but he was told that he would have to wait for an indefinite period of time because SOLAS did not have the capacity to deliver it. Months passed in this vein. He contacted me in the hope that some way to end this wait could be found in order that he could continue his course. All he wanted was to roll up his sleeves and start work, but he was left out in the cold waiting to hear whether he could continue his course.

More than one year has passed since, and he is still waiting. This month, SOLAS contacted him to inform him that he will be waiting until January 2027 at the earliest. That is a full two years after he should have started this training. I spoke to him today and he told me is considering dropping out of the course. He is considering looking at something else. This is not the first time he has said this to me. It is a continuous thought. He feels he cannot continue to wait and is utterly disappointed.

This young man has been failed by the State. His ambition has been crushed by a broken skills and training system that is not working for apprentices. He is not alone in this regard. In a response to a parliamentary question I received in December, the Minister confirmed that over 1,7000 apprentices were waiting in limbo for off-the-job training. Meanwhile, there are chronic shortages of tradespeople across our economy. The Department’s forecast shows that we need 80,000 construction workers to deliver its plans for 300,000 new homes, plus the retrofitting of over 400,000 homes. Yet, apprentices of all types are waiting to progress but they cannot do so. These people want to be qualified. They want to help their communities and sort out the housing crisis but the Government is letting them fall through the cracks and asking them to put their lives on hold. The Government is simply not delivering for them.

If a law degree – I have said this before in this Chamber - took six instead of four years, there would be outcry across the Chamber. Think about this young man and his two friends who are considering dropping out of their apprenticeship programme because they simply cannot wait any longer. I have followed this matter up with SOLAS and I have raised it in this Chamber, but to no avail. We need a fundamental shift in how we deliver apprenticeships. Instead of putting up barriers to entry, letting courses spiral in length and charging apprenticeship fees, the Government should be doing everything in its power to encourage young people into these jobs and boost the number of workers in trade and construction. It should increase the funding for the training bodies, provide targeted financial supports to SMEs during off-the-training blocks and abolish apprenticeship fees once and for all. We need to take these things seriously. We need to allow young people to have a future.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

I admire the Minister’s suit. I recall it was a tradition for a while that the summer properly started in Leinster House when former Member Bernard Durkan broke out his cream and grey suit. Perhaps the Minister – another Kildare TD - is now taking up that mantle and is the tribune of summer in Leinster House.

Deputy James Lawless

I hope to be in this House as long as him.

Deputy Donnchadh Ó Laoghaire

That would be a fine record.

On the research side of things, I back the calls by IFUT. We are talking about taking research seriously, and rightly so, but people undertaking PhDs in crucial areas of research in many instances still receive a stipend that is very low. It needs to be acknowledged that this is not some form of payment towards maintenance; it is their full-time job. They are not meant to be doing anything else. They are meant to be full time at the PhD, whatever discipline it is, whether science, health or whatever. It is meant to be a full-time occupation. Ultimately, the PhD stipend is not sustainable in particular in Dublin and Cork and probably in the other cities as well. That needs to be addressed.

On the skills side and apprenticeships, I remain concerned. We have a housing crisis and it continues to escalate. We are not going to resolve that without ensuring there is adequate throughput of apprentices on the craft apprenticeship side. There are serious backlogs. Like my colleague, Teachta Mairéad Farrell, I have heard of people who have gone through the different stages of the apprenticeship and waiting for the final stage for a year or two years. What is meant to be a four-year qualification takes six years. That is unacceptable. If we are encouraging people to take up apprenticeships, it should not just be school-leavers. It should be people switching careers. Unfortunately, it is not realistic for somebody in their thirties who might have a mortgage or childcare costs and is leaving a different career. They are not able to survive on first-year and second-year apprentice payments. It is just not sustainable. That needs to be looked at. How do we support people who decide at 33, 34 or 35 years of age or whatever age or maybe later that they want to become an electrician when there is clearly a need in that discipline. There are blockages in most of the trades, particularly instructors for electricians and electrical instrumentation. There is a particularly slow take-up of wet trades. When you talk to contractors, that is a big concern for them. We need to look at how to bring more people into apprenticeships and into the wet trades, which are badly needed during this housing crisis. That needs particular examination.

Deputy Eoghan Kenny

We meet at a moment of enormous change in our economy, workplaces and society. Across every sector from manufacturing to medicine, construction to finance, agriculture to creative industries, technology is transforming how we work, learn and live. Artificial intelligence, automation, digitalisation and the green transition are not future challenges, they are present realities. While these changes bring enormous opportunity, they also bring understandable anxiety for many workers, families and communities. The question before us is quite simple: will Ireland shape this transformation in the interests of people or will we allow people to be left behind by it?

When we talk about skills, training and innovating, we are not simply talking about economics, we are talking about dignity, opportunity and whether a young person in Longford, a parent returning to work in Cork or a worker displaced in Donegal can look to the future with confidence rather than fear. That is why our skills and innovation systems must not merely react to change, they must anticipate it and prepare people for it. They must ensure the benefits of innovation are broadly shared across society. Ireland has many strengths to build upon. We have a highly educated workforce, world-class universities and technological universities, strong enterprise sectors and a global reputation as a centre for investment and innovation. There are also serious weaknesses we can no longer ignore. Too many workers cannot access flexible retraining opportunities, too many apprentices struggle with costs, accommodation and insecure pathways, too many schools still lack adequate digital infrastructure and guidance supports, too many adults feel lifelong learning is designed for other people and not for them and too often our education and training systems remain fragmented, difficult to navigate and slow to adapt. The pace of technological change is accelerating but public policy has not kept pace.

The Labour Party vision for skills and innovation begins with a simple principle - education does not end at 18 or 22 years of age or with a degree certification. In a changing world, learning must become lifelong, flexible and genuinely accessible to everybody. That means we need major expansion of lifelong learning opportunities not as a slogan or pilot programme but as a central pillar of our economic and social policy. Workers should be able to upskill or retrain without risking poverty, losing housing security or sacrificing family responsibilities. That requires flexible evening courses, hybrid learning, modular qualifications and proper financial supports. It also requires partnership between Government, employers, unions and education providers because workers themselves often know best where skills gaps are emerging and where training is urgently needed.

We must be honest that many people currently locked out of training are those who need it most - low-paid workers, workers in insecure employment, people with disabilities, carers, workers in rural communities and older workers who fear technological change because nobody has invested in supporting them through it. A just transition, whether digital or green, cannot simply mean telling people to adapt. It means giving them the tools, time and support to adapt successfully. If we are serious about future skills, we must also be serious about apprenticeships. For too long in Ireland apprenticeships have been treated as secondary options rather than equal pathways to success. I know from the Minister's perspective since he has taken over this role apprenticeships are no longer a secondary opportunity for people. That mentality is outdated and damaging. I believe that is changing during this Dáil term.

We urgently need more apprenticeships in construction, retrofitting, healthcare technologies, cybersecurity, advanced manufacturing and renewable energy. We need stronger links between apprenticeships and further progression routes into higher education and to tackle financial barriers that continue to discourage participation. At a time when we face housing shortages, infrastructure deficits and climate obligations, investing in apprenticeships is not optional; it is essential national planning. Future skills are not only technical skills. Creativity, critical thinking, communicating and adaptability matter.

In an era of artificial intelligence, uniquely human skills will become even more valuable. That has profound implications for schools and the higher education system. We cannot prepare young people for a changing world through an education model built entirely around high-stake exams and rote learning. Students need digital literacy but they also need media literacy, civic education, creativity, teamwork and problem solving. Teachers need support too because no innovation agenda can succeed if educators are overwhelmed, under-resourced and exhausted. Teachers are already managing extraordinary pressures in classrooms. If we want our education system to evolve, Government must seriously invest in teacher recruitment, continuous professional development and classroom supports. Innovation cannot simply be downloaded onto schools with the resources.

While we rightly discuss technology, we must also discuss inequality. Technological change can deepen inequality if governments fail to intervene. We already see worrying divides in access to digital infrastructure, devices and educational opportunity. We know children from disadvantaged backgrounds continue to face barriers their wealthier peers do not. Educational disadvantage still maps too closely onto income, geography and disability. If innovation only benefits those already advantaged, it will fail socially and politically. That is why the Labour Party believes investment in education and skills is not merely economic spending but also social investment. It is nation-building and one of the most effective ways to strengthen democracy. Societies where people feel secure, valued and included are better able to navigate change.

We should also recognise the importance of research in public innovation. Ireland's future competitiveness cannot rely indefinitely on low corporate tax or external investment alone. We need indigenous innovation, stronger research ecosystems, sustained public investment in science, research and development and stronger collaboration between universities, technological universities, enterprise agencies and local communities. Innovation policy must not become detached from public purpose. It should help us to solve real societal challenges such as sustainable housing, delivering cleaner energy, improving healthcare access, supporting inclusive education, strengthening public transport and addressing climate change.

Technology is not neutral. Public policy shapes whose interests it serves.

We must also confront the implications of AI honestly and responsibly. AI has enormous potential to improve productivity, healthcare, research and public services, but it also raises serious concerns around employment rights, misinformation, bias, surveillance and concentration of economic power. Workers cannot simply be treated as collateral damage when it comes to technological disruption. We need strong labour protections, ethical regulation and social dialogue as these technologies evolve. Crucially, workers must have a voice in shaping how technology is introduced in workplaces, because innovation imposed without consultation breeds distrust. Innovation developed democratically builds confidence.

There is another issue we must address, namely regional imbalance. Too often, opportunity remains concentrated in Dublin and a handful of urban centres. A modern skills strategy must include regional development. That means investing in further education colleges, technological universities, research hubs, transport links and broadband right across the country. Talent exists everywhere in this country; opportunity does not. It is the responsibility of the Government to close the gap in this regard.

The green transition also presents one of the greatest opportunities of our generation. Retrofitting homes, developing renewable energy, expanding public transport and restoring biodiversity will all require huge numbers of skilled workers. If we fail to train people now, however, we will face bottlenecks, labour shortages and missed climate targets later. Climate policies and skill policies must therefore be developed together rather than separately. The same is true for housing policy, industrial policy and regional policy. Joined-up government cannot remain as an aspiration; it must become a reality.

We must remember that the purpose of economic progress is not simply higher GDP figures; it is improving people's lives. A successful skills and innovation system is not only measured by productivity statistics or investment rankings; it is also measured by whether people feel secure about the future, whether workers feel valued, whether young people believe they can build a decent life here and whether communities feel included in national progress. That is the test we should apply to every policy decision in this area.

Ireland has the talent. We have the creativity. We have the potential, but potential alone is not enough. We need political choices that match the scale of change before us - choices to invest in lifelong learning, to support workers through transition, to strengthen apprenticeships and further education, to tackle inequality and to place fairness and inclusion at the heart of our innovation policy. The future of work should not be something that happens to people; it should be something that we shape together. If we get this right, Ireland can become not only a leader in innovation but also a leader in ensuring that innovation works for everybody.

Deputy Albert Dolan

Something that we have to be cognisant of is that over the past few years many people have said that it is our corporate tax rate that has attracted so much investment. That is not the case any more. It is our people who are driving that investment. It is also down to our knowledge base, our skills base, our highly-educated workforce, our work ethic and, I guess, to a desire for better and to do more. That does not just happen, however. That will only happen with continuous investment, continuous learning, continuous education and a continuous drive to see people upskill and be better prepared to take on the challenges that are coming at us. It also is a reflection of the fact that nobody will do one job for 30 or 40 years any more. Such jobs will be highly unlikely. People will constantly have to re-educate, reskill and better equip themselves for the opportunities that are going to come their way.

On the advance of AI and the opportunities and threats that come with it, what I want to say is that there could be massive economic benefits to Ireland from AI. What will it all be for, however, if the benefit is not felt by everyone? The key lies in ensuring that our workforce is skilled and educated and moves with AI and that we leverage our country as being one of the best countries in the world in which to do business through AI. We must also facilitate it and see that Ireland garners disproportionate benefits over other countries in terms of our speed of implementation. That is where the biggest wins will be achieved.

The other point I want to make is around innovation and people taking a chance on themselves in the context of starting their own companies. It is so important that we continue to invest in innovation and in people who want to see something that is a game-changer take place in our country. Companies and individuals struggle to scale across Europe and do not make it big. That comes down to capital access as well. However, we have an opportunity to invest in innovation over the coming years and to see to it that there are huge success stories which generate massive employment and excitement across the country.

Deputy Cormac Devlin

Skills, training and innovation are the foundation of Ireland's competitiveness and of every young person's opportunity in life. The investment of €1.5 billion in the National Training Fund, including €37 million to SOLAS for construction, manufacturing, healthcare and the green transition, is the single most consequential reskilling investment of this Government. Apprenticeship registrations in construction and related fields have grown by 57% since 2020. I see this on the ground in my constituency, in Dublin College, Loughlinstown, where craft apprentices from across south County Dublin and beyond do their phase 2 training.

I raised in the House previously the phase 2 backlogs that existed post-Covid, and it is great to see progress in that area, with the numbers down from 5,300 in October 2023 to 1,800 or thereabouts today. This shows that the system is working, but, of course, there is more to be done. Further investment will expand the number of places and ensure that they are relevant in the context of a changing Ireland.

The next big challenge is AI and the impact it is going to have on society and the labour market. AI will not replace skilled workers but it will reshape every job they do. As a result, we must prepare young people not only to use AI but also to develop it, interrogate it and think critically alongside it. Foundational digital literacy, AI literacy and critical analytical skills must be embedded as the core of every further and higher education programme, not merely bolted on. I welcome the establishment of AI Ready and the advent of the Springboard+ AI places.

The harder task will be reforming the curriculum right across the system. The educators at Dublin College and those in Blackrock, Sallynoggin and, of course, Dún Laoghaire Institute of Art, Design and Technology, IADT, which the Minister visited recently, are up to that challenge.

Speaking of recent visits, the Minister also visited the community training college on York Road in Dún Laoghaire, where educators such as Ms Catherine Bell and her colleagues do fantastic work upskilling students and preparing them for their next stage of life in the exciting decade ahead. I thank the Minister for his commitment to his role and for the visits he has made across the Dún Laoghaire area.

Deputy John Clendennen

It is broadly agreed that 65% of children who start primary school this year will start work when they finish their education in jobs that do not currently exist. That shows the level of change we are seeing. The OECD and the World Economic Forum have outlined that the average person will have ten to 15 different jobs during their working life. On foot of that, we need to be more dynamic and more adaptable than ever before in what we do in the area of training, skills and innovation systems.

Eurostat figures show that in relation to tertiary education attainment, we are well above the European average and our target currently of 65% of youth between 25 and 34 years have attained educational qualifications compares to the European average of roughly 40%. That shows that there is an ability and a desire on the part of our young people to improve themselves, but what we need to do is ensure that they have the flexibility to provide that in other areas. When we look at the likes of trades and apprenticeships, we need to continue on our trajectory in making it more appealing and encouraging people to get into that area.

The Minister visited the Laois and Offaly Education and Training Board in Offaly on Monday. The progress that has been made there in terms of diversification and the number of different courses that have been invested in has been exceptional. It has truly made a difference to my local community.

I will give the Minister one example of just transition whereby funding was made available in order to address the void left by the ESB and Bord na Móna for science, technology, engineering and mathematics, STEM, officers. The latter have done an exceptional job. Every primary school and every secondary school in Offaly now has VEX Robotics. This has created a whole new culture of STEM, led by Mr. Ray Bell and Mr. Dean Hodge. At the end of this year, however, just transition is due to conclude and the jobs of those STEM officers could potentially be in jeopardy.

We cannot have that situation when we are working to innovate and looking to be dynamic and adaptable when it comes to new sectors. We need to get them up and running. We have schools that are enjoying success in competitions in the US on an annual basis. Countries are looking to us with regard to what we have done in respect of STEM education at a time when we are putting funding in jeopardy. That cannot happen. If I could ask the Minister one thing it would be to find funding for opportunities like that.

Deputy Barry Ward

I agree with much, if not everything, that has been said in the course of the debate by those on all sides. Balancing our skills need and development is important. I want to come at this from a slightly different angle, however. I am chair of the European affairs committee, and a delegation from the committee recently visited Luxembourg and met some of the people involved in the European institutions there. We know they exist throughout the European Union, including with Eurofound, which celebrates its 50th year in Loughlinstown in my constituency this year. There are a range of positions and good jobs in those institutions that are available to Irish people.

We have done very well in the European civil service, if I can call it that, over the years, whereby Irish people have attained very high positions, in particular the likes of Catherine Day, who was head of the European civil service before she retired. In a meeting with the European Court of Auditors in Luxembourg, we found there were six high level in Ireland there due to retire the coming years. There are not the people at the middle level ready to take over for them at the higher level.

In terms of readiness and preparedness from a national point of view, one of the opportunities we have is to push much harder that door into European institutions. The European Movement Ireland has a green book to advertise and inform people of the vacancies arising. Those vacancies can relate to the Commission, the Council, the Parliament or other institutions right across the Union. We need to do better at convincing Irish people to apply for these jobs. We are lagging behind other countries in terms of applications. Italy is one of the front-runners. It has an institution dedicated to preparing people to apply for those jobs, not just telling them about what a job involves and the remuneration package but also about how to apply for a job and how to prepare an application. When people get interviews, that institution gives them the skill set and information they need to be successful. That is important, not just because it is good for the people involved to get those jobs and get into an institution that can be a lifelong place of growth and opportunity but also, and more importantly, it means, from a national perspective, that when decisions are made all over Europe, if there is an Irish person sitting at the table, our perspective is ventilated. Of course, the institutions do not represent any state, and I am not saying they should, but it cannot be a bad thing for Ireland to have a person in the room when decisions are being made. The best way to do that is to reinforce the need for Irish people to apply for jobs in Europe.

Deputy Natasha Newsome Drennan

I welcome this opportunity to speak about the high standard of skilled workers we have in Ireland and to those students who are coming through our education system right now. This is something we should be very proud of, but it is also an area in respect of which we must be far more ambitious. When it comes to educating our citizens, the sky should be the limit.

We need to recognise the achievements of our institutions. We are fortunate to have the South East Technological University, SETU, which has campuses across Waterford, Carlow, Wexford, Wicklow and Kilkenny. We also have Carlow College, Ireland's second oldest third level institution, which recently announced that it will wind down operations and that no new students sill be accepted this September. As one can imagine, this is a massive blow for Carlow. Over 600 students attend the college, but, critically, 87 staff members now face redundancy over the coming two years. There has been talk of redeployment, but the staff must be central to those talks. They have a wealth of knowledge and expertise that we cannot afford to lose.

There has been engagement between Carlow College and SETU. I ask the Department to work alongside the institutions to support a positive outcome for staff and to put supports in place for those who cannot transition to SETU. I would also like to know when the Government became aware of the plan to close Carlow College and whether any attempts were made to keep it open. This is a substantial site and an historic building that cannot be left idle to just rot away. The immense uncertainty hanging over staff and students right now cannot be overstated. I have heard from staff who do not know whether to stay in the hope of redeployment or to start looking elsewhere. I have also heard from students who are worried about whether their courses can be completed if the staff begin to leave. They deserve clarity, not vague assurances. We should strive to offer a wide range of third level courses in the south east.

I have four sons in primary and secondary school. I know from speaking to other parents the worry and anxiety they feel at the thought of their children having to go to Dublin or Cork for a course. The cost is crippling for so many families. The silent sacrifices parents make so often I go unnoticed, but we make them just to give our children opportunities. That is why having a strong range of courses on offer and giving young people the chance to study near their own communities would be a positive development. It would be great for families and communities.

Deputy Jen Cummins

I was late for the Minister's speech because I had to be somewhere else. I have read it and I like the fact that reference was made to the four Ds. I am sure some people in this building will remember the three Cs or whatever the other letters were years ago in education. The three Rs-----

Deputy James Lawless

Reading, writing and arithmetic.

Deputy Jen Cummins

That is exactly it. We now have the four Ds. I agree with many of the points the Minister made. We are educating our children and young people leaving secondary school. In terms of where they go on, the starting point is what level people are at when they do the leaving certificate or leaving certificate applied. Many do not know how to open a bank account, change a tyre on a bike or car or do many practical things because we have put them into a system from which they almost have to be deprogrammed. They have to develop critical thinking skills in first year in college. My daughter had to do that in order to start to think about real-life things as opposed to what is taught by means of the leaving certificate syllabus. That is for a different Department and another day.

When it comes to learning at third level, we have to examine a number of things. The Minister spoke about broadening first year post-leaving certificate and post leaving certificate applied courses and making them more general. I would love to see that. I often speak about the love of learning, which is something I am very passionate about. The rest of this contribution will probably be about where we are, the skills we need for an economy and so on, but my fundamental starting point on education is the love of learning and passion because that is what will drive us forward. When somebody works in a job they love, they will do really well. It is the same when they are studying.

We need to examine what we are offering. I agree with what a previous speaker said. The Minister's focus on apprenticeships is most welcome. The easier we can make the transfer from second level to third level and into apprenticeships the better. At a meeting of the further and higher education committee when young apprentices explained the process of applying to be an apprentice I was struck by how complex the process is. Everybody else fills out a CAO form, which is not easy and which is quite complex. For a parent it can be quite daunting, in particular a parent who may never have applied through the CAO. We need to make the apprenticeship process more streamlined.

As another Deputy stated, we need to take account of young people not in employment, education or training. I talk about community training centres quite a lot. I will speak about one I visited during the week, namely Cherry Orchard Community Training Centre. It has tied-in equine services. People can learn to work with horses, including equine therapy and working in stable management. That is the sort of practical skills that CTCs have. It is the same with Youthreach and local training initiatives, LTIs. I could not come in here and not say that we need to sort out the contracts for CTCs and LTIs. Organisations are working to assist young people who found mainstream education did not fit how they learned, which is ultimately what the difficulty is.

I refer to adult and further education. Community education is important to make sure that anybody who has not had the opportunity to go to third level straight after school has an opportunity to go back and learn.

In this country, we have a massive issue with people who still do not have appropriate numeracy and literacy abilities. Adult education services and organisations like the National Adult Literacy Agency, NALA, are there to make sure people are at the appropriate level because they cannot be left behind, yet they have been for a long time. On that basis, some of the skills we need to be looking at come under one of the Ds the Minister mentioned, namely, digital and AI skills. Whether we like it or not, the reality is AI is here and we need to find a mechanism to be able to use it to our advantage and make sure that everybody is using it in all different sectors but in an appropriate and ethical way. With that comes cybersecurity and data analysis training. What does that mean in all of the different sectors we will be working with? There is also software engineering, cloud computing and digital skills for all sectors - small- and medium-sized enterprises, but also for the public sector. We are in here. How are people dealing with it in the Civil Service? How are we dealing with all of these things?

The Minister mentioned industry and education collaboration, which is really important because we need those partnerships. One cannot exist without the other. We cannot be training and running loads of programmes at third level that have no relevance whatsoever. In a way, we have that in second level. There is stuff that is not relevant to anything. It is outdated, outmoded and we have done it for years. We need to change that, and that is what is good about the leaving cert reform. We need to make sure that industry and education are connected, not only in the technical universities or the further education training centres, but also at apprenticeship level.

Coming back to lifelong learning for a second, we need a modular basis for learning that is also stackable. I had the pleasure of opening the exhibition for the students in the Royal Hibernian Academy of Arts, RHA, the other day. They can do modules or they can do a two-year course. I will come back to the Minister at a later stage because the RHA does not have Higher Education Authority, HEA, status and there is something amiss there. It was fantastic to meet those students because they told me that they could come in and do one module and, later, they could do another. It fits into their lifestyle, which is important. We need to ask if it can be online or hybrid.

There is the mid-career change issue. There are several of us sitting in this Chamber who have changed jobs mid-career to become politicians. That is the same for everybody. People change careers. It is not like years ago when you started, went into a job and stayed in it for 45 or 50 years.

The other things I want to talk about are research and innovation ecosystems. How do we do that? How do we have start-up incubators? Where do they fit within that? Somebody mentioned the regions earlier. We need to move out of Dublin; we do not all live in Dublin. We need stronger technological transfer supports within that ecosystem.

We have talked about green skills and the climate a lot and the fact that we might miss those targets now. If we are not using now as the catalyst for moving into all areas of climate, we will really fall behind. Part of that is looking at what technologies we need and where we are with regard to renewables, sustainable construction, the circular economy and all of that sort of stuff.

There is a student who has been on work experience with me for the last little while. She will be heading off to do a master's degree next year in an institution in this country. It will cost €9,000. If we want to have things like that, master's programmes cannot be that expensive. That is prohibitive for many people.

We are very strong on pharmaceuticals in this country. We need to look at biotech and the capacity there with regard to life sciences, automation and robotics. Since I have come into this role, I have met a number of people who are working in that industry. We need to support them much more but there needs to be link, not just between people who are working in that industry and third level, but also back to second level. It starts in second level. In fact, I would say it starts in primary school.

There are two final points I want to make. All of that said, there are two areas that are really important. None of this will be of any use to anyone if we are not making sure it is inclusive and there is social mobility within it. We cannot leave behind anybody because they live in a socio-economically disadvantaged or rural area, they are a mature student or they have been displaced by AI or automation. We need to make sure we are focusing on that.

Regarding disability and other support services, as education spokesperson, I daily hear about the number of children who are identified as having additional needs. We are far behind where we need to be with support services for children and adults who have disabilities. We need to make sure that we are training occupational therapists, OTs, speech and language therapists, SLTs, therapists, psychologists, psychiatrists and all of those people who can make sure that the disabled person is getting the supports they need.

We have a huge issue in this country with mental health and we do not have the support services we need. There are huge waiting lists.

In terms of skills, we need not only everything on the technological side, but also a human perspective. We need to have people who are trained, have the capacity and passion to work with people of all ages who have mental health problems or disabilities, and are supported to reach their best potential. I could not leave this conversation without saying that. While a lot of what I have said is about the pharmaceutical industry or technical aspects, but at the end of this, we need to make sure that every person in this country has the capacity to learn and work to the best of their ability. We need to ensure there are all the supports around that.

Deputy Michael Murphy

I will take this opportunity to not only highlight, but shine a light on the proposed college of the future on the former Kickham Barracks site in Clonmel and acknowledge the progress of the project in the context of the SOLAS major project process. It would be remiss of me not to acknowledge the Minister's steadfast support for the project as well. As the Minister knows, I wrote to him in March inviting him to come to Clonmel to see the site first hand. He is due to visit the site in the next number of weeks. I look forward to welcoming him to Clonmel.

It should not be seen as just another major project. It is transformative in nature and involves the creation of Ireland's fully integrated further and higher education campus. I acknowledge the significance of this project for Clonmel, south Tipperary and the wider region. It presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to deliver a modern tertiary educational campus. I acknowledge all of the stakeholders involved at the local level, particularly Tipperary ETB, but also the local authority, local industry, the public representatives and the wider community. Importantly, this project reflects the ambitions set out by the Government on balanced regional development, skills provision and parity of esteem between further and higher education.

I look forward to welcoming the Minister to Clonmel in early June. Seeing the scale and potential of the project first hand will underline its continued momentum and Government support. That is important as the project moves to the next phase. I acknowledge the work of Tipperary ETB, SOLAS and all of those involved to date as well as the Minister's steadfast support in particular. I look forward to seeing this flagship project continue to the next phase.

Deputy James Geoghegan

I thank the Minister for giving us the opportunity to talk about such an important area of our society and economy. The area I am particularly focused on as Leas-Chathaoirleach of the AI Oireachtas committee is the impact of AI, the disruption and making sure that Ireland is ready and prepared. We need to make sure that the students of the future are adapting and developing the necessary skills they will need for the jobs of the future. An IMF report released on Monday or yesterday indicated that up to 40% of current jobs in Ireland would be impacted by AI in one way or another. That potentially underestimates the impact of AI in Ireland but what is really being highlighted there is the strong services element of our economy and the impact that AI can have on that.

For a lot of young people out there, one of their biggest fears is that their jobs will effectively be taken away and they will not have jobs. These are graduates who have done all of the right things, worked hard and their parents have saved to support them through college. They want to see them getting good jobs and staying and working here. They are really fearful that the introduction and pace of AI will not be good for them. The only way to respond is to ensure that we have the right skill set and that our third level institutions, our further and higher education institutions and the State are walking, as much as they can, in lockstep with the changes that are taking place in the private sector and the changes that are being adapted in the public sector when it comes to AI.

The Minister will be familiar with the interim report the AI committee published in December. One of the key recommendations was the establishment of a critical skills observatory. I was delighted to see that recommendation form part of the national AI strategy published by the Taoiseach. I am aware that the Minister is working on this observatory and that it is soon to be completed, based on replies to parliamentary questions I saw.

We need to set up the critical skills observatory as soon as possible. It is important – maybe this is already happening – to have a good degree of collaboration between the Minister’s Department and the Department of education, given that the Minister for education, Deputy Hildegarde Naughton, has established an AI task force. This is really responding to the needs of the moment. I am sure I am no different from any other TD in this room in the sense that when I talk to teachers and students, I note they are saying the same thing. Teachers just want some level of direction in terms of how the children use AI. The children want direction on how they can use AI in a way that effectively does not stupefy them and does not reduce their capacity and learning skills in education.

Many countries are already moving at pace in this area. One of the countries I visited with the Chair of the AI committee, Deputy Malcolm Byrne, was Estonia, a country well known for its digitalised society. At secondary level, it is already sandboxing education to some extent. It is introducing AI into the classroom but monitoring and assessing it at a very high level. Academic institutions are supporting its introduction into the classroom. They are appraising it as it is introduced. Having retrained many of the teachers who have voluntarily signed up for some of the pilot projects, they are assessing the learning in the classroom. Ireland has, perhaps, the opportunity to learn from the mistakes being made in some countries when they introduce AI into education.

I urgently ask that the critical skills observatory be established and that we ensure we have the jobs for the future.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Joe Neville.

Deputy Joe Neville

First off, I just-----

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Cahill has just arrived and I believe Deputy Neville was to share his time with him.

Deputy Joe Neville

Yes.

An Ceann Comhairle

Therefore, I think we will have to cut Deputy Neville’s time a little.

Deputy Joe Neville

Perfect.

I welcome Ms Clodagh Hanna, chair of the politics society in Trinity. It is good to have someone who is beginning the journey from a schools perspective. Over the past 25 or 30 years, or indeed since I have been observing, we have been very good at sending children to university and then into the workforce. Ireland’s having a highly educated workforce has worked very well for it internationally, but that is beginning to change. We know of the impact of AI and that we need to consistently renew critical skills, not only in university, but also after university. The days of going to university and then getting a job had already changed, but we now have a situation where the skill sets required will probably change considerably.

As somebody who has worked in businesses, especially where electricians and plumbers were required, I have seen where there have been deficits. As a country, we probably pushed everybody to university. That has worked for us, but we have lost the skills that would be required for the building of the likes of Intel, which I was thinking about when thinking about this topic. Intel is a huge multinational based in my constituency, and I can walk to it, but it should be remembered that the people required to build it are the electricians and plumbers. We need to ensure we have the skill sets for those apprenticeships while also having critical skills in the likes of AI, which will really change how we do things. As a country, we need to have a two-pronged approach. It is not just about going one way. Last year, the Minister said that we had €79 million secured for apprenticeships. I would like this increased significantly if it can be. We have to keep a focus on this and not have everything going one way, having regard to how the workforce is changing. Sitting behind a desk is not for everyone and, as a country, we need both skill sets.

I thank the Chair for the opportunity to speak on this today.

Deputy Michael Cahill

I want to raise again two hugely important education and economic development projects for County Kerry and ask that every effort be made to expedite both.

The first is the proposed hospitality education college at the former Pretty Polly site in Killarney. It is a transformative project not just for Killarney but also for the wider south-west region. Hospitality and tourism, as the Minister is well aware, are the backbone of our local economy, and this project would create a state-of-the-art training campus focused on hospitality and skills development. I welcome the progress already made. I thank the Minister especially for the €2.375 million he made available to Kerry ETB to acquire the site from Kerry County Council and the approval given to Kerry ETB to engage with the vendor and proceed with the due diligence on the preferred site. However, I urge that SOLAS continue driving this project forward at pace. The demand for skilled workers in hospitality, tourism and food services is enormous, and the college will help secure the future workforce for one of Ireland’s most important industries while also bringing more educational investment into Kerry.

The second project I want to highlight is the proposed commercial diving and underwater welding training course, to be based in Cahersiveen and to be provided through Kerry ETB. This is an exciting and innovative project with huge potential for south Kerry and Ireland’s marine sector. There are excellent careers and well-paid jobs available in underwater welding and commercial diving but we need to ensure Irish people have access to the training required to enter those professions. Cahersiveen is ideally placed to become a national centre of excellence for this type of marine training and skills development.

I acknowledge the constructive engagement already taking place involving Kerry ETB, Bord Iascaigh Mhara and the relevant Minister of State, Deputy Timmy Dooley, but I ask that the project be prioritised and progressed urgently.

Deputy Ruairí Ó Murchú

In a rapidly changing world, it is very difficult to follow from one headline to another, whether it relates to domestic matters or geopolitics, which are in constant flux. Somebody said that we seemed, unfortunately, to be almost returning to the 1700s, just with better weaponry. It is a necessity that we deal with the realities of the world we live in and ensure we have the appropriate skill sets.

I welcome certain things when we are talking about ensuring a greater level of access for those who may need another path, whether that is in medicine or teaching. I am talking about two very particular skill sets that we need in society. A considerable number of people, particularly young people, may want to enter medicine or teaching. It is necessary to ensure we allow the free flow because, at times, we may open pathways but not to all. This must be taken into account.

We know the issues that exist regarding the whole sphere of disability, particularly children’s disability, even if we are talking specifically about autism. No matter what issues I may have with how children’s disability network teams, CDNTs, and primary care are put together, I know that whether we are talking about in-school therapies, CDNTs, primary care or something else, there will be a need for a greater number of therapists. It is about ensuring the best modes of training. We have all seen apprenticeship types change. We must have an increased number of pathways that suit people from the point of view of garnering the skills necessary to deliver.

It goes without saying that Queen’s University Belfast and Dundalk Institute of Technology, DkIT, have a partnership that many of us welcome. Hopefully, it can be a win for both and ensure more of the work that has already been done by the likes of the Regional Development Centre in DkIT, and also a greater level of research work and output.

The Louth and Meath Education and Training Board has done considerable work with the Advanced Manufacturing Training Centre of Excellence, which is operating directly with employers. I cannot but talk about the Ó Fiaich Institute of Further Education, the Drogheda Institute of Further Education, DIFE, and the various pathways that are available, but I still feel we need much earlier intervention to ensure we can get people into work.

We are aware of the ongoing fear of displacement through AI, with whatever benefits there will be. We have seen it in Meta contractor Covalen and possibly PayPal. However, we do need to deal with the issue of personal assistants in the further education colleges and the need for proper contracts.

Deputy Paul Murphy

An Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI, report in April predicted that approximately 7% of Irish jobs could be lost to AI in the short to medium term. That equates to approximately 200,000 jobs. The Central Bank estimated earlier this year that almost 900,000 jobs are at risk of being replaced by AI. That is just direct job losses. In reality, the impact will be a lot worse than that because many of the jobs that are lost will be higher paid roles in ICT and finance. Over 20,000 tech jobs have been lost in the past year alone and the rate of job loss is accelerating. Meta is cutting 20% of jobs. Covalen Solutions is trying to make 700 workers redundant. Oracle is cutting 150 jobs. Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael have turned the economy into a corporate tax haven where income and wealth are distributed like an upside down pyramid but jobs go the other way around. A small number of mega rich US multinationals are booking billions in profits and paying a sliver of the workforce very high salaries and bonuses. In turn, this is supporting over 500,000 low-paid service workers in hospitality, retail, cleaning and childcare. That is why Ireland has the highest level of market income inequality in Europe. If 200,000 higher paid jobs are lost, or even more, when the AI bubble bursts and the global economy crashes, the wider impact on jobs and workers could be truly catastrophic.

AI still is not profitable, despite all the trillions being speculated on it, and nobody has proven yet that it will lead to widespread productivity gains. An economics paper published earlier in the year, called "The AI Layoff Trap", shows how even if it does, the economic impact will still be dire because the more capitalists replace workers with AI, the fewer workers there will be to buy good and services, and consumer markets will collapse.

What is the Government doing to plan for this? Not nothing but worse than nothing. It is cheering on the AI lemmings as they race over the cliff. The Taoiseach and the rest of the Cabinet are constantly banging on about adopting more AI and doing it faster even though they know it is going to decimate jobs and worsen inequality. They are sacrificing more and more of our electricity and water supply for vast, empty data centres that do not create tech jobs or protect them from being cut. In fact, they are speeding up tech job losses by creating the infrastructure that the big tech bosses need to replace more tech workers with AI. Every data centre is like a giant Pac-Man gobbling up energy, water and jobs. The ESRI predicts significant declines in household income and increases in inequality as a result of AI, including a 30% increase in capital income to the richest 10%. It is so extreme that even the ESRI is now recommending expanding taxes on wealth and capital. In other words, a wealth tax and an increase in corporation tax and inheritance taxes on the rich. That is precisely what we have been calling for. However, there is no chance of the Government doing any of that. In fact, it is doing the opposite. It is living in the last century and must get its head out of the clouds.

Deputy Brian Stanley

This is an important debate. A high proportion, in excess of 60%, of our young people go to third level. It is good that people are becoming highly qualified and are able to get quality jobs. However, there is a skills shortage and an imbalance. There is a shortage of people with construction skills and a shortage of people undertaking those apprenticeships. That was not addressed during the Celtic tiger, even though there was a building boom, and it was certainly not done during the crash. There is a shortage of electricians, plumbers, plasterers, carpenters and technicians for retrofitting and heat pumps, etc. Laois County Council has difficulty even getting people to service heat pumps and finding people to repair them because the skills are not there.

We also need apprenticeships in the motor trade. There is, in Laois, a chronic shortage of mechanics, technicians and crash repair panel beaters, along with the shortages across the county in the building trades. We need apprenticeships. There need to be apprenticeships across a wide range of areas.

I welcome the fact that the Government has expanded the programme. There are over 80 apprenticeships at the moment. We need to be promoting that in accounting, IT, manufacturing, logistics and so on. Apprenticeships offer an alternative route. We need to further develop apprenticeships through the Laois and Offaly Education and Training Board. It is doing excellent work in Mount Lucas. Other training centres in Laois and Offaly need to be used for that. Apprentices have an advantage because they are earning and training. That is better than being in a third level college in a lot of ways. They have on-the-job and real-life experience, which is hugely important. They also have progression to secure employment and the exceptionally high rate of employment after apprenticeships shows that. They also have freedom in later life because they have a transferable a skill. They can progress to greater things. For example, carpenters can move on to become clerks of works.

I acknowledge the expansion in the range of apprenticeships. We should be actively promoting that. An idea was put forward over the weekend by an economist who suggested that when we are building an extension to a school, the pupils of the school should be able to visit it and interact with the workers and the project to give them a taste of what it is like and encourage them.

There is exploitation of apprentices by a small number of employers. They use them as a means of cheap labour by paying less than the minimum wage. Instead of apprenticeships being used as an opportunity for learning and training, they are being used for that. The apprentices are being let go in their third or fourth years. It is important that apprentices have the right to be represented, like all other workers, by a trade union. We do not have the right to collective bargaining here and we need it, particularly for apprentices. They need to be within the minimum wage framework and the Redundancy Payments Act.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett

One aspect of a changing world is a population that is getting older. That means we need more people caring for the people who get older and who are less mobile and have higher levels of disability and so on. That means the people who provide that care need to be treated properly if we are going to get the people to do the work, the need for which is expanding and is going to expand as the population of this country gets older. However, we do not, to a very large extent, treat them well. I have met quite a lot of people over the past couple of weeks. The workers at North Side Home Care Services are on strike. Once upon a time, they had parity with those who were directly employed by the HSE. They were at the same level as healthcare assistants. That parity was broken and has never been restored for considerable numbers of people, despite an impression being conveyed that a deal was done when some people, those in section 39 organisations, got restoration. There was a whole group of people - and I am only getting my head around this - who were considered out of scope, whatever that means. It meant they did not get pay restoration. They are getting paid poverty wages while doing the same work as people who are employed directly by the HSE and get relatively decent wages compared to them.

It is not just North Side Home Care Services workers who are in this situation and are on strike. I met a load of others. There are thousands of people doing this work. They are doing very difficulty work and are asking themselves why on earth they would continue to do the job when they are getting paid such a miserable level of pay and did not get pay restoration. They think it is because a lot of these so-called not-for-profit care companies are a stepping stone towards the privatisation of these services. You start at the same level as directly employed healthcare assistants, with parity and so on, and end up on poverty pay working for a company where there is no accountability and the work is outsourced and privatised. That is a big part of a changing world. It is not as high flying as digital and all that stuff but is an important part of our future, given our ageing population. We need to start to treat those workers properly. It begins with them being returned to the pay parity they enjoyed before austerity, which, let us not forget, was imposed after Fianna Fáil drove us over a cliff.

Deputy John McGuinness

I agree with Deputy Newsome Drennan about the transparency that is needed around the Carlow College decision and the 600 students and staff. We need clarity as soon as possible and I ask the Minister to give that issue his attention.

I welcome the fact that we have a South East Technological University. I want to see the campuses developed properly and fully, and funded. I refer particularly to Kildalton College and the veterinary courses there. We need to see a future where more students are attracted into that area and the funding is clearly available for the expansion of those courses.

Likewise, millions of euro have now been invested in the further education college of the future in Kilkenny and I would like to see it expand and develop again.

Earlier in the debate, Lemass and Whitaker were mentioned. If they were here, they would probably say the development of everyone in the Civil Service sector needs as much attention to ensure they keep pace with the policies we are putting forward. Much of the expenditure we approve in the House is poorly spent. There are often big issues with it but it is a large amount of money. It is time now that we modernise the Civil Service, equip the staff for what we want them to do with the policies we are outlining and encourage them to reform Government Departments in a meaningful way so they are at pace with political decisions and the changing world we now live in. Will the Minister of State address that in the context of education?

Deputy Malcolm Byrne

Lamp lighter, town crier, water carrier, horse-drawn cart driver, washerwoman - these were all careers highlighted in the 1926 census, which was published recently. I am sure many here looked at the national archives and saw those roles. They were all skilled roles. What happened was that technology came along and replaced them over time. It is critical for any society when technology comes along that people do not stand like Luddites, as we heard some colleagues speak previously, but embrace the technology, avail of the opportunities and, most important, ensure citizens are upskilled to avail of the new opportunities. AI is without doubt the most transformative technology we have seen in quite some time. The World Economic Forum reckons that in the next five years, while 92 millions jobs will be displaced globally, 170 million new jobs will be created in new areas, in exciting areas like healthcare and so on.

I commend the Minister, Deputy Lawless, on the aiready.ie initiative and the proactive approach being taken by many universities and training agencies to upskill and reskill all our citizens. However, it will require a whole of society approach and we need to be ambitious because this will have an impact on every area. How are we embedding the use of AI skills - the value that can be added by their use - into every area of work from agriculture to transport?

I will briefly mention another critical issue. We all know about the great work done by Youthreach and local training initiative programmes. I am familiar, for instance, with Youthreach in Gorey. The Gorey and Courtown local training initiatives, LTI, offered through Gorey Youth Needs Group do incredible, good work on the ground. Many young people have been able to avail of training and have gone on to pursue incredible careers. However, there remains a differential in the pay structures between staff who operate on Youthreach programmes and staff who operate on LTI programmes. Those inequities need to be addressed. The people providing young people with real opportunities need equity and I ask the Minister of State to prioritise that matter.

Deputy Naoise Ó Cearúil

Thinking of a changing world, many of us this afternoon are speaking about AI, and rightly so. However, in Ireland the changing world also means an increase in population and an ageing population. Thankfully, we have the National Training Fund and €650 million of that is for healthcare training. In my hometown, Maynooth, for example, there is now a school of nursing helping to tackle the issue of not having enough healthcare staff across the country and particularly in the eastern region. That is extremely welcome.

On artificial intelligence, many colleagues have spoken about the initiatives taken by the Government thus far, particularly by the Minister, Deputy James Lawless, my constituency colleague, including the launch of aiready.ie two weeks ago and how that is improving and helping people. Some 45 micro qualifications are ready. Springboard courses and Skillnet courses are available. These are all courses happening, particularly for people looking to learn more about AI.

Where we fall short is in workers in situ. I spoke about this as a Topical Issue matter this morning. The Minister of State, Deputy McConalogue, was here when I spoke about it. I have developed a policy and programme and a pilot for that programme under which people would be retrained and reskilled within their roles if their jobs are at risk, if there is a risk of that job being removed. That ensures we protect workers in the jobs they are in, rather than them losing them. It is not just a higher education and skills issue. It is a Department of enterprise issue and a Department of Social Protection issue because it goes across all of society. Most important, it is a workers' issue, to protect workers in society.

Deputy Malcolm Byrne spoke about the various historical jobs that no longer exist. Some administrative jobs will no longer exist but people who work in administration in a law firm, for example, could manage the AI software or become a data analyst. It is reskilling in the job and the State has, and should have, a role to contribute, but so should employers. That is critical for the future of workers.

Deputy Maeve O'Connell

Today, I will speak about AI in higher education and specifically the impact it is having on staff in higher education. AI is often talked about as a double-edged sword in education. There are benefits for students with personalised learning, continuous feedback and delivery of education through multi-media. Students have different learning styles and now we can deliver education in different ways to suit them. However, this is putting increased pressure on staff. The staff are not getting the same benefits from AI. It is putting increased workloads on them and we are not focused enough on this and do not talk enough about it. These are the very people on whom we depend to deliver all the wonderful things we are hearing about today to upskill our workforce for the future. It is the staff we expect to do that upskilling.

Why are they facing these additional pressures? They are all being asked to redesign assessments. We are in a post-plagiarism world, as it is called. Our traditional form of assessment, the final written exam, guarantees academic integrity but is also vulnerable to issues around the use of AI. Staff are having to learn new systems and to do things differently through AI. Even if AI is used for assessment purposes, it still needs human verification. One study found that 75% of students were failed by the AI grader so all of those had to be verified. Lecturers are conducting mini viva voces on written assignments to ensure academic integrity is maintained, that the students are learning what they were taught, what it was intended for them to learn and that they have embedded that learning. AI grading is also generating more student queries than forms of traditional assessment. One study found that 88% of students queried their AI generated grade.

This is in a context where we are facing an ever increasing arms race with AI technology. There is a race between the detection tools to check whether an assignment submitted used AI and students' evasion tactics. In the short term, I do not see that the extra workload on staff in higher education institutions will reduce. In fact, we could be facing a number of years of constant pressure to try to maintain the standards and integrity.

I welcome the Higher Education Authority's new framework on AI. It creates a groundwork around it but we also need to support it more with openness to change. We need to look at ways to support our staff. One in five staff in higher education is on a temporary contract. They need support to manage these changes.

Deputy Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin

Many may be fixated on upskilling in AI but Ireland is at crisis in another way, with the lack of practical skills. There are shortages in a whole range of craft areas, with a lack of builders, the lack of upskilling and training in building or construction, including plastering, plumbing, retrofitting, electrical services, carpentry and I could go on. These are all practical skills we desperately need.

Unfortunately, Ireland moved away from this as a society. We started to look down our noses at training and apprenticeships in these vocational areas. There was an overprioritisation, with all young people having to have a university degree. That happened over the last couple of decades and Ireland is very much paying the price for it now. It was a very short-sighted approach. It is grand talking about AI and upskilling in this area but if you do not have plasterers, builders, plumbers, carpenters or retrofitters - areas in which young people can make a great amount of money - Ireland is going to be paralysed. We can see that in the delivery of our infrastructure at the moment.

I am on the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, as is Deputy McGettigan who is sitting here in front of me. We produced a 59-page document recently following eight meetings with a vast range of groups, basically to come up with practical recommendations for the next apprenticeship strategy for 2026-30. It examined how the system is working or, should I say, how it is not working. We looked at areas like the shortage of skills in areas such as housing delivery, infrastructure and climate transition. We need to put a great focus on resourcing Youthreach programmes and the ETBs. We identified many barriers to these apprenticeships in Ireland. There were financial barriers due to low pay, insufficient allowances and high up-front costs for tools; barriers for those with disabilities and low incomes; travel and accommodation issues in terms of long commutes and accommodation support if people have to live away from home. There were also employer-related barriers, especially for SMEs, with difficulties in having apprenticeships, training blocks for apprentices, the administrative burden and a lack of financial support for small businesses to employ apprentices. Other barriers identified were the lack of awareness and poor promotion in our secondary schools; a cultural bias in favour of the university pathway; the complexity of the system, with multiple bodies such as SOLAS and the ETBs; and the lack of a centralised system like the CAO, which we need to have. As regards access and inclusion, there were barriers for those in minority groups, childcare responsibilities and a difficulty in matching up employers with apprentices. There are 48 recommendations and I encourage the Minister of State to look through them. I could go on all evening on it, but it is a key area we need to look at because otherwise we are going to be lost as a country. We can talk all we like about AI but if we do not have the practical skills we will be lost.

Deputy Peadar Tóibín

It is really important to have a debate on the issue of AI and the impact it is going to have on society, training and education but we have not really had one in this country for a long time. We are at the edge of a significant economic transformation in Ireland. We are probably one of the most exposed countries in the whole of the European Union in terms of the AI revolution. It is not something that will happen in the distant future; it is happening at the moment. It is already leading to unemployment in this country. Incredibly, 20,000 jobs have been lost in the IT sector in just the first three months of this year. That is an incredible figure. It is hidden by the fact that we have good job figures in general, but there is an underlying fault line which is starting to create major difficulties. I shudder for any parent who is sending a child into university at the moment and has to try to select the right jobs and the right courses for their children, given the fact that AI is coming after some of the most well-paid jobs in the country. Many of the jobs and the further education courses that were highly sought-after by children and parents are now the types of jobs that are going to be swallowed up by AI.

I have listened to other TDs talk about this. There has not been an equivalent to the revolution we are seeing at the moment. The Industrial Revolution is probably going to be the closest equivalent to it. AI is equivalent to nuclear power in relation to its impact on society. It can, like nuclear power, be a force for good but it can also be a force for great harm. I do not think the attitude of the Government, which says, "Ah sure it will be fine; there will be bumps along the way but we will get over it and in the end we will all work out a little bit better," is the right attitude to it. It is going to have a severe effect on the economy. It is going to affect top-paying jobs the most. According to the ESRI, 7% of all jobs in this State, in the short to medium term, are in danger as a result of AI and its development. The closest thing I can think of in recent times, in terms of jobs being lost in this revolution, is potentially the bank crash.

US tech companies are investing heavily in AI. They are slashing jobs in staggering numbers. Microsoft cut 15,000 workers last year. Amazon laid off 30,000. Block estimated 4,000 jobs, or 40% of its workforce, were gone. Oracle laid off thousands of jobs. Pinterest has laid off 14% of its workers in recent times. Google is saying that AI accounts for 51% of all code that has been written in that organisation in the last while. Block's head of engineering said 90% of the company's code submissions were authored partially or fully by AI in the last while. All of these areas are in big trouble.

There are a number of things falling out of this as well. Staff are being forced to use tools that are designed to replace their jobs. On that key element of human oversight of decisions that are being made by AI, staff whistleblowers are indicating that this is not happening in many situations. Many of the entry-level roles for finance or law graduates are being replaced with AI at the moment.

Like nuclear power, we really need to regulate AI in an international fashion. No individual company, or even a bloc such as the European Union, can regulate it by itself. As countries such as China and the US are going to look to further gain competitive advantages in terms of AI over the next while, there needs to be an international agreement on how we deal with AI and its development in future. That is the first issue.

The other issue relates to training and education. There are 7,000 Irish nurses registered in Australia at the moment. We are educating Irish nurses to go abroad to work. That is bonkers. Spending significant sums of money to educate medical experts and healthcare workers to work in another jurisdiction is one of the stupidest things a State can do. An individual business would be out of its mind to do that, yet that is what we are doing at the moment. In 2023, the majority of doctors who graduated left the country. Right now, 51% of all students in medical schools in this State are from outside the EU. The medical schools are dependent on money to function. They are not getting enough from the State. They get far more from students from outside the EU because those students have to pay tens of thousands of euro for their degree. Therefore, currently the majority of medical students in Irish universities are from outside the EU. These individuals will naturally want to go home and work in their home countries. Again, our infrastructure is being used to educate staff for other locations. As a result, the majority of staff we are putting into our hospitals are themselves from other countries such as India, Sudan and elsewhere. It is not like people are not getting sick in these other countries. They are. This idea that states are educating people for other states and then filling their hospitals with graduates from other countries needs to be looked at. The idea that the Government is presiding over medical schools where the majority of students are from outside the European Union is wrong. I have raised this for the past few years and nothing has happened on it at all.

I agree with Deputy Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin that there is currently a massive gap in the whole trades area in Irish society. It is one of the significant gaps that exists in the construction industry. The Government has indicated that there are quite a few large infrastructural projects coming down the line. We are hopeful of a Navan to Dublin rail line, etc., being built in the next number of years. We do not currently have the workers to fill those gaps. Right now, any domestic person looking for a plumber or an electrician is having great difficulties.

The project to get solar panels onto our roofs is being slowed down by difficulties in getting electricians. There is a massive pool of Irish people working abroad who were working in the State in these trades. Aontú has a policy called "Operation Shamrock", the objective of which is to provide funding for these individuals to come home, to provide funding for them to work for four years in the sectors we need them to work in and to provide accommodation quickly so they have somewhere to live. The Government was able to provide accommodation quickly for IPAS and should be able to do the same to get workers back from the likes of Australia and Canada to work in this country in the trades where they are badly needed.

As a country, we are at a precipice of enormous, radical change, change that most of us cannot imagine or plan for. There is very little effort by the Government to seek international regulation to control that change in a manner that does not disrupt people's lives. It will disrupt people's lives and reduce significantly many people's incomes, which will have knock-on effects on mortgages and people's ability to raise their families. That controlled transition is not happening, which will create great difficulties for the training and education sector.

Deputy Martin Daly

When we speak about ensuring our skills, training and innovation systems keep pace with the changing world, we often focus on technology, artificial intelligence - which will be revolutionary - automation and digital transformation, but for constituencies like Roscommon-Galway, the real question is much simpler: will people have the opportunity to build a future where they are from? Change is already happening. Employers are struggling to recruit. Our health services need skilled professionals. Construction needs apprenticeships and tradespeople. Agriculture is becoming more technologically advanced and more specialised. Small businesses are expected to digitise and compete globally. The risk is not simply falling behind technologically; the risk is that rural communities fall behind economically.

We need a skills system that recognises learning does not end at 21 years of age. People should be able to engage in lifelong learning when they are returning to work or changing careers. Many people will be changing careers with the advent of artificial intelligence - farming, running a business or adapting to new industries. We also need to elevate apprenticeships, practical training and further education to the same status as traditional academic routes. Success should not depend on leaving your county. Innovation must not stop at the gates of our cities. If Government is serious about balanced regional development, investment in skills, enterprise supports and training opportunities, it must reach towns across Roscommon-Galway and the wider west.

I welcome the commitment to the veterinary college in Mountbellew, east Galway, as a demonstration of the Government's commitment to decentralise higher education. Talent, ambition and potential are not scarce in rural Ireland; what is scarce, too often, is access. Our responsibility is to ensure that, in a rapidly changing world, a person's place of birth never determines whether they can adapt, succeed or contribute. The pace of change is not slowing down and rural Ireland cannot be expected to simply catch up afterwards. We need to anticipate where jobs are going, where shortages are emerging and where opportunities will come from, and we need to prepare people before those gaps appear. If training and innovation systems move too slowly, communities like ours risk losing people, investment and opportunity. Getting this right is not only about economic growth; it is about keeping towns viable and services functioning, and giving people a genuine reason to build their futures at home.

Deputy John Connolly

The Irish workforce's strong foundation has been referenced frequently throughout this debate. We have one of the youngest and most educated workforces in Europe and continue to attract significant investment because of that, particularly in high-value sectors such as med tech and ICT.

Galway has become a global leader in medical technology, employing thousands in companies that export worldwide. Within the city, we are conscious of its importance and we want to develop it further and to create a workforce in the city and the region that can facilitate that growing sector. I do not think that success in the med tech sector - we are also enjoying some development in the whole tech sector - in Galway emerged in isolation. It is deep-rooted in Galway in that the city has a strong creative and cultural identity and a strong tradition in the creative arts going back some time. We are well known for the traditional Irish arts but, even in more recent years, the range and spectrum of artistic endeavour in Galway city is ever growing. That is one of the things that has created this innovation in science and technology in the city. It is fuelled by that creativity. For that reason, it is important our approach to research and education be balanced. While investment in STEM is hugely important and will ensure we have the workforce to fill the jobs I speak of, we must also support other areas of research and academic endeavour, such as humanities, the arts, history and sociology. These disciplines develop creativity, critical thinking and cultural confidence, and that is vital to a functioning and creative society and economy.

Is mian liom ceist a ardú faoi na deiseanna atá ar fáil – nó easpa deiseanna atá ann faoi láthair – chun staidéar a dhéanamh trí mheán na Gaeilge ag an tríú leibhéal. Labhraíonn muid go rialta ag an gcoiste Gaeilge agus ag an gcoiste ardoideachais agus breisoideachais agus deirimid nach bhfuil go leor deiseanna faoi láthair do dhaoine a bhfuil an Ghaeilge acu mar chéadtheanga staidéar a dhéanamh trí mheán na Gaeilge ag an tríú leibhéal. Caithfidh muid breathnú air seo. Ní hamháin gur rud teanga é seo, ach is é an rud ceart é.

Dá dtógfaí mé le Gaeilge, ba cheart go mbeadh na deiseanna agam staidéar a dhéanamh trí mheán na Gaeilge ag gach leibhéal oideachais – ag leibhéil na bunscoile agus meánscoile agus ag an tríú leibhéal chomh maith. Níl na deiseanna sin ann faoi láthair. Ba cheart dúinn breathnú air sin, go háirithe má tá muid dáiríre faoin sprioc atá againn go mbeidh 20% den earnáil phoiblí in ann Gaeilge a labhairt go líofa faoi 2030. Caithfidh muid a bheith cinnte go bhfuil an córas oideachais agus an córas oiliúna in ann an sprioc sin a bhaint amach.

Another local development that is crucial to the advancement of the education sector and the realisation of the skill development we want to see in the country, particularly in Galway, is the college of further education that is being proposed by the Galway and Roscommon Education and Training Board. We met recently with the board and the Minister, Deputy Lawless, met with the executive of the GRETB. There are very exciting plans there. The further education sector has become a real option for young people on their conclusion of secondary school. We need to provide the facilities to match those opportunities. The Galway college of further education is an exciting development. The proposed building is based on the Tuam Road in Galway. It would expand access to training and skill development, support regional economic development and strengthen the links between education and enterprise. I will not say there are barriers or impediments. It is progressing but the pace of progress from concept to reality is slower than we would like. We would like to think development could be quicker. I know the members of the executive of the GRETB are anxious to progress it. I do not think they would be offended by my saying they are becoming a little bit frustrated by the assessment process it must go through before they are given the green light to develop the facility. Will the Minister of State discuss that with the Minister, Deputy Lawless, and the Department of further and higher education, so that the project comes to fruition at the earliest opportunity?

There is another thing that, in a general sense, it is important to raise during this debate.

Participation in lifelong learning in Ireland lags behind other EU countries. We still have this sense that education is solely for young people and while it is most advantageous for young people to avail of it as early as they can in life, we still need to turn the dial somewhat to give people the opportunities throughout their lives for educational enhancement, skill development and personal enhancement because one core aspect of the education system at every level - primary, secondary and third - should be the development of the person. Whatever skills they learn will be their vocation in life. We need to teach young people, and all people, that all those cross-curricular, or transversal skills as they are called in the third level and further education sectors, such as personal skills, personal well-being, critical thinking and how to work together as part of a team, are hugely important. They create good employees and good members of society as well.

One of the debates we had at the higher education committee recently was about the area of assistive technology in the third level sector. It was interesting to hear from some of those working in the sector and the discussion around how they feel that young people may not have the level of digital literacy skills that we may have taken for granted that they do have and how they find that it is necessary to train young people in that area. That is hugely important. One of the things they spoke about was how different operating systems and platforms demand different skills and young people who are able to manage one platform or operating system are challenged by others. Examining that issue is important too.

Deputy Carol Nolan

We are told constantly that Ireland must prepare for a changing world: automation, the green transition, AI and new labour market demands. Yet, when we examine how this Government is actually managing the National Training Fund – the very tool meant to deliver those skills – an interesting picture emerges. Through a series of recent parliamentary questions, I have exposed the reality. In 2025, the National Training Fund ran a surplus of €283 million. Levy income reached €1.297 billion while spending was just €1.014 billion. Projections show surpluses of €172 million in 2026 rising to €365 million annually by 2030 while actual training expenditure flatlines.

Employers pay the full 1% levy in good faith, yet this money sits unused rather than reaching the front line. IBEC recommended a targeted, time-limited rebate in 2022 to help businesses cope with rising costs. The Government refused it outright as the Minister reconfirmed to me recently in a response to a parliamentary question. I ask for that to be looked at again because businesses are really struggling and it is a sensible, common sense and practical proposal put forward by IBEC.

Instead, we are told that any change is a matter for the Estimates process. Meanwhile, rural and domestic SMEs, battered by auto-enrolment, the living wage, and pension hikes get no relief.

The neglect of practical, sector-specific training is particularly stark. For example, look at Farm Business Skillnet, the exact type of close to the labour market programme IBEC called for. Funding has crawled from €152,124 in 2023 to just €160,000 in 2025. I ask for this to be addressed. In terms of apprenticeships I also ask that the funding for phase two apprenticeships be allocated to Laois and Offaly Education and Training Board Excellence, LOETB. I visited its skills centre on Monday and the Minister, Deputy Lawless, was also there and it was very much appreciated. We need the STEM officer to continue in their role in Offaly County Council. It is important that is also funded. I make those calls on behalf of my constituency. I hope the funding for those positions will be continued because they have been highly effective. I saw the apprentices in action in the skills centre in Tullamore and they were very impressive. We need to become more ambitious and more like Germany in terms of the range of apprenticeships and in terms of making sure that apprenticeships are on the same level as degree programmes.

In fairness, I can see that progress has been made. We have the skills centre in Mount Lucas, and I commend LOETB on all its fantastic work. It was great to get the opportunity to meet some of the apprentices who were there on Monday. More women are going into apprenticeships as well and that was clear to be seen in Tullamore. I want to reiterate the calls for funding for phase two of the apprenticeship programme and for the STEM officer for Offaly County Council.

I referred to the Farm Business Skillnet initiative earlier. However, the number of farm businesses supported has collapsed and this has to be taken on board. It has collapsed from 2,112 farm businesses to 1,199 and the total funding for all agriculture-focused Skillnet networks has fallen from €2.94 million to €2.61 million. That is not keeping pace. We need real skills and not paper skills.

The just transition, for example, is not an abstract concept. Older workers face real disruption from climate policy, technology change and market shifts. They need targeted, practical upskilling delivered through employer-led networks like Skillnet and not just box ticking.

The National Training Fund belongs to the employers and workers who pay into it. It should not be a slush fund for pet projects. I call on the Minister to immediately increase core funding to Farm Business Skillnet and other rural Skillnet programmes in addition to the other funding that I mentioned was needed.

Minister of State at the Department of Culture, Communications and Sport (Deputy Charlie McConalogue)

I thank all Deputies for their contributions today. This has been a thoughtful and wide-ranging discussion, and it also reflects the shared understanding across the House that the pace of change we are experiencing is both significant and accelerating.

Ireland has transformed profoundly over recent decades. We have built a strong, dynamic and outward-looking economy, supported by a workforce that is skilled, adaptable and ambitious. That resilience remains evident today, even as we navigate a period marked by geopolitical uncertainty, economic pressures and shifting global dynamics.

As has been reflected in the debate, we are now moving into a new phase - one where the scale, speed and interaction of change are unlike anything we have experienced before. The forces we have discussed, the so-called "4 Ds" of demographic change, digitalisation, decarbonisation and deglobalisation, are not abstract trends. They are already reshaping our economy, labour market and society. They are influencing where jobs are created, how work is organised and what skills are required to participate fully in that changing world.

In response, there is a significant amount of work already under way. Across further and higher education, we have seen a sustained expansion of capacity and a diversification of pathways. There is now a much stronger emphasis on flexibility and on creating opportunities for people throughout their working lives. Initiatives such as the growth of apprenticeships, the development of new tertiary pathways and the expansion of flexible and modular learning are helping to open up access and meet evolving needs.

We also need to think carefully about how students enter education. Ireland has traditionally channelled young people into narrow specialisations at an increasingly early stage. There is merit in broader entry pathways that allow students develop strong transversal skills such as critical thinking, adaptability, communication and problem solving before specialising later.

There has also been a clear focus on strengthening the link between education and enterprise. That partnership is essential. Whether through direct industry engagement, targeted initiatives or structured dialogue such as the national skills round tables, we are seeing a more responsive and aligned approach to identifying and addressing skills needs as they emerge.

At the same time, investment has increased significantly supporting not only skills development but also research and innovation capacity. That investment is about more than numbers; it is about building a system that can adapt, anticipate and continue to evolve in line with economic and societal change.

There is important work under way to strengthen our understanding of those changes through improved data, better foresight and a more strategic approach to planning for future skills needs.

All of that represents real and meaningful progress, but it is important to recognise that this progress does not remove the challenges ahead. If anything, it underlines their scale. We will face increasing competition for skills across critical areas of our economy, from construction and infrastructure to healthcare, digital technologies and the green transition. We will have to balance competing demands, manage constraints and make choices about where to focus our efforts. That is the reality of a tighter labour market and a more complex global environment. Perhaps most importantly, we must remain conscious of the time dimension. Investment in skills is essential, but it is often not immediate in its impact. The decisions we take today in education, training and workforce development will often take years to fully translate into outcomes. That requires a long-term perspective and a willingness to maintain focus and investment even as pressures evolve.

While there is much to point to in terms of progress, there can be no complacency. If anything, the uncertainty of the current moment reinforces the need for sustained effort. Technological change will continue apace, demographic pressures will intensify over time and global conditions will remain unpredictable. The demand for skills will continue to shift as a result. Our collective task is to ensure that we remain responsive to that change while also being grounded in a clear understanding of our priorities and constraints. Our approach is to continue to invest in people. This means maintaining strong partnerships between the Government, enterprise and education. It also means being willing to adapt our approaches as new challenges emerge and recognising that this is not a once-off response, but an ongoing process.

Every major phase of Irish progress has ultimately depended on education, skills and knowledge. The decisions we take now on apprenticeships, research, infrastructure, lifelong learning and workforce development will shape Ireland long after current pressures and headlines have passed. Our responsibility is to ensure the next generation inherits a country equipped not merely to compete but also to thrive. Debates such as this form part of that process with acknowledgement of the importance of continued engagement across this House and the value of bringing different perspectives to bear on a shared set of challenges. I look forward to continuing that engagement in the time ahead and to working with colleagues to ensure that Ireland remains well-positioned to navigate the changes that lie before us.

An Cathaoirleach Gníomhach (Deputy Erin McGreehan)

Before I move to the next item, I want to warmly welcome Emma Harte, Aidan Harte, Susan O'Reilly, Lynn Carr and Joanne Lynch to the House.

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 27 May 2026

Ensuring our Skills, Training and Innovation Systems Keep Pace in a Changing World: Statements (Resumed)

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 May 2026