Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters – Seanad Éireann (26th Seanad) – Thursday, 11 Jul 2024

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Cardiology Services

Senator John Cummins

The expansion of cardiac services at University Hospital Waterford, UHW, is a topic on which the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and I have worked continually because we are acutely aware of the need and the impact it has on our constituents in Waterford and the wider south east region. We have worked collaboratively along with other public representatives and campaign groups on a cross-party basis to advance the provision of cardiac services at UHW. It is a touchstone issue that is at the forefront of many people's minds in Waterford. This is a good thing because the people of Waterford and the south east deserve equity of access when it comes to life-saving cardiac interventions in the same way as people in other regions have.

It is for this reason that the then Minister for Health, Deputy Simon Harris, approved the construction of the second cardiac cath lab at UHW at the end of 2018 against the advice of officials because he and the Government believed in the case that was being put forward by UHW, which was that in order to adequately treat patients in the south east in a timely fashion, a second cath lab was required as a first step to expanding services which, at the time, only operated from 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., five days a week.

During the lifetime of this Government and the previous one, considerable extra resources have been provided to increase the level of cardiology services at UHW. Prior to the opening of the second cath lab, a service-level agreement was in place at UPMC Whitfield Hospital to provide additional hours to assist with cardiac diagnostics. This service then returned to UHW with the opening of the second cath lab in UHW in September 2023. We now have two cath labs operating from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. five days a week, which has had a really positive impact on service availability and has led to a significant reduction in the waiting list. Indeed I understand that we now have one of the lowest waiting lists in the country for cardiac procedures.

In her response in this House to me on the same topic in December 2023, the Minister of State confirmed that 22 of the 24 additional posts were already in place and the focus was very much on how we move to the next phase of development, namely, moving to 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. seven days a week. While some political representatives wrongly stated at that time that the embargo would prevent further expansion of services, we both said that it would not because the case to have that allocation in the 268 whole-time equivalents that were approved by Government for this year had been successfully made by the Minister and us as Government representatives.

When I was mayor, I remember hosting an engagement with the consultants at UHW regarding primary percutaneous coronary intervention services at UHW. It was said at that time that up to 95% of cases would be covered by 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. seven days a week services so it is a significant leap forward to get to that point. When does the Minister of State envisage having that 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. seven days a week cardiac service at UHW? Will management have to have the additional 22 posts approved and in place before we can move to that or can we get to that level of service while the recruitment is ongoing?

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Mary Butler)

I thank Senator Cummins for giving me the opportunity to update the House on this matter, a really important issue on which the Senator and I have worked tirelessly for many years. The Minister for Health and I are fully committed to supporting our cardiac services nationally and cardiovascular health in general, which is a valuable part of our health service.

I acknowledge the commitment made by this Government, recognising it has invested significantly in UHW. I also acknowledge the significant developments in cardiac services delivered by UHW and commend the staff on their continued commitment and dedication to providing specialised cardiac care. I stand here proudly in this House with the Senator asking the question and speak about the pride we have in UHW, which is one of the best performing hospitals in the country.

In 2019, University Hospital Waterford had a budget of €201 million. In 2024, that budget is more than €290 million, meaning it has grown by €89 million. That is a 44% increase in the lifetime of this Government. This is only right as there are more pressures on acute hospitals to deliver more services. We have an ageing and growing population.

UHW is the largest employer in Waterford city and county. Staffing at the hospital has grown by 841 since the end of December 2019, from 1,949 to 2,805 in May. This represents an increase in staffing of 44%, including 47 more consultants, 100 additional non-consultant hospital doctors, 370 more nurses and midwives, as well as 123 additional health and social care professionals. As part of this investment in workforce increase, there has been a focus on developing cardiac cath lab services at the hospital. In September 2022, the opening hours for the original cath lab in UHW were extended to 8 a.m to 8 p.m. from Monday to Friday, excluding bank holidays.

I am pleased to say that the programme for Government committed to a second cath lab in UHW, with a capital investment of almost €8 million. The second cath lab opened on 4 September 2023 and operates five days a week, Monday to Friday, from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Notwithstanding the difficult recruitment environment impacting the healthcare sector, 24 whole-time equivalents were provided to support the opening of the second cath lab. They were all in place in 2023. There were 37 whole-time equivalents approved to support initiatives at UHW. These were included in the first round of new development funding for 2024 and in the pay and numbers strategy for 2024. Permission has been granted by the Minister to commence recruitment for these positions and it is now an operational issue for the HSE to do so.

On Tuesday morning, I spoke to the general manager, Mr. Ben O'Sullivan, who was pleased to have received sanction to commence recruitment immediately to implement weekend cover in the cath lab. I also had that confirmed by Mr. Damien McCallion, HSE chief operating officer, who has oversight of the pay and numbers strategy. There has been criticism that some timelines have been lost, but I operate in good faith with the information I receive. I have a duty, as does the Senator, to inform the public in Waterford on what is a matter of huge importance to us all. I cannot withhold the information and just see what happens. I was given the information in good faith at the start of the year. Unfortunately, it has taken longer than we would have liked for the pay and numbers strategy to filter down to the hospitals. The good news is that recruitment is commencing immediately. Having spoken to the general manager of the hospital, his indicative timeline is a three-month focus to have services in place some time in October.

Senator John Cummins

That is the key issue. It seems from the Minister of State's discussions with Mr. O'Sullivan that we can get to that level of service while the recruitment is ongoing. Obviously, these are highly skilled individuals who are not waiting around for a phone call to take up a post at UHW. It is good that we will be able to move to that level of service while the recruitment proceeds at the same time. As I have said previously, there is not much grasp of the level of vested interest in play here, both in the medical space and further afield. There are those who did not and still do not want this service to expand at UHW. The Government has always had the political will and determination to get to this significant level of service, namely, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. provision with weekend cover. As I said, when I was the mayor of Waterford, consultants would cover up to 95% of all cardiac cases, which is a significant leap forward. Given their throughput and the work done in the two cath labs, I am confident they will demonstrate a need to build further in the time ahead.

Deputy Mary Butler

I thank the Senator and also acknowledge our colleague, Deputy Ó Cathasaigh. People step up to the plate and become a part of the Government. When that happens, their job is to deliver. Working constructively together, I believe that we are delivering. We are not where we want to be yet, but we are moving quickly in that direction. Considerable progress has been made. We had a single cath lab which was a point of failure that broke down regularly. We all remember there was a mobile unit three days a week for diagnostic services. Now we have two state-of-the-art cath labs. We have a service from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., Monday to Friday, 24 new staff since 2023, and weekend service recruitment commencing this week.

Sometimes there is a misunderstanding and there are criticisms, but there are difficulties to be faced in progressing these issues. This week, UHW became one of the first hospitals under the pay and numbers strategy to have recruitment sanctioned. I thank the Minister for Health, Deputy Donnelly, and the Taoiseach for all their work in supporting us. We are not there yet but we will get there. This is a good news story notwithstanding what people will say.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I thank the Minister of State for coming to Seanad Éireann on behalf of the Department of Health.

Asylum Seekers

Senator Martin Conway

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, to the House. We look forward to having her at the EU scrutiny committee next Wednesday afternoon. I tabled this Commencement matter out of sheer frustration. In 2022, when war broke out in Ukraine, County Clare, more than any other county, made people from Ukraine feel welcome. Over time, some of those people were accommodated privately, others went back to Ukraine or to other countries and others moved to Dublin. A significant number stayed in County Clare and embedded themselves in the county. Their children went to school, they got jobs and became friendly with people and built up relationships. The reason I tabled this Commencement matter is that there have been several examples in County Clare of people being uprooted when they should not have been.

In the first instance, my colleague, Councillor Tony Mulcahy, who is a former Senator, spoke to me about 40 Ukrainian people who were moved from Shannon to Lisdoonvarna. This is despite that fact that most of them work in Shannon, all the children go to school in Shannon and most of them had been in the town for the past two years. This happened again more recently in Kilbaha in west Clare. People in Kilbaha were initially reticent about welcoming Ukrainians but that was only the fear of the unknown. As soon as the families landed, they were given a huge céad míle fáilte. They settled into the community, got jobs, played in local sports clubs and the children went to school. The person who was providing the accommodation was happy with them. All members of the community in Kilbaha were 100% caring and considered the Ukrainians friends, yet the Department of integration decided to end the contract and move them to Lisdoonvarna. Ukrainian families in Kilkee were also moved, even though, again, they had been living in the area for 24 or 26 months.

That is the first point. The second point is that the unique aspect of all these stories is that all these people were moved to Lisdoonvarna. Contracts were ended in various parts of Clare, whether Shannon, Ennis or Kilbaha in west Clare, but no contract has ended in Lisdoonvarna. The town has five or six hotels and is predominantly dependent upon tourism. We have been very fortunate that in Lisdoonvarna there have been no anti-immigrant protests. The community has completely welcomed the migrants, the people from Ukraine and indeed the direct provision people who are also living in Lisdoonvarna.

What I am looking for is an overall strategy for County Clare. We need to see some hotels in Lisdoonvarna return to tourism. We need to see the people who are here from Ukraine treated with some respect.

We need to see people who are here from Ukraine, who have embedded in the communities and whose children are going to school in the communities, treated with some respect. I do not believe the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth has any meaningful strategy for County Clare. I think it is making it up as it goes along. I want to see a county-by-county strategy that respects the people in the county, the people from Ukraine and the direct provision people in the county and the economic needs of the county. I do not think this is too much to ask given the Taoiseach has said we need to move from an emergency situation to a more medium-to-long-term strategy in terms of migration. This does not just mean Dublin and tents on Mount Street. It means all of Ireland, including County Clare. I was loath to table this Commencement matter. I have only done it during the very last days of the Seanad and have done so out of sheer frustration.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill)

I thank Senator Conway for raising this important issue. I was struck by the total decency, generosity, kindness and humanity he has shown in advancing his Commencement matter on this issue and the way in which he has done it by respecting the lives, experiences and difficulties encountered by the people who have come here from Ukraine and developed good relationships here and the overall balance in terms of the people in County Clare and the economic need. It is exactly this sort of balanced public representation that is the way we should be approaching the migration crisis and the difficulties associated with it.

It just strikes me that the Senator's contribution was in such contrast to some other contributions we hear from other Senators or Deputies in relation to this matter. To give an example, let us take Deputy Pearse Doherty, the senior spokesperson from Sinn Féin, whose new policy is to send Ukrainians back to the safe parts of Ukraine, wherever he imagines those are, next March when the temporary protection directive has to be reconsidered. This is in total contrast to the generous, humane and kind approach the Senator has taken here, balancing the overall needs, economic and social, of the people in County Clare. I thank the Senator for raising this matter and for the approach he has taken.

The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has asked me to provide an update in relation to the strategy generally in respect of the beneficiaries of the temporary protection supports that are given. These supports are short-term arrangements and are temporary. The Minister's response states that the Department aims to ensure it has a portfolio of accommodation that meets the evolving needs of the State’s response to the Ukraine crisis. He also states that in recent months there have been decreases in arrivals from Ukraine to Ireland, decreases in those arriving who request accommodation from the State and greater numbers of Ukrainians who choose to move on from State accommodation.

This is the position at present. I recognise, however, that we are having this conversation in July. Winter is coming and Russia has done its best to make Ukraine unlivable then with the bombing of energy production facilities. Coupled with an absence of factories to replace glass, this will mean the position in the country will be extremely difficult and so we might expect there to be a different situation in Ukraine in the autumn. This is now, however, and the Senator has raised concerns about the transfer of beneficiaries of temporary protection from properties in County Clare. The Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, has asked me to update the Senator by stating there are no current planned moves from Kilkee, County Clare. However, as the Senator already identified, contracts with an accommodation centre in Kilbaha and two accommodation centres in Shannon have recently been terminated.

The beneficiaries of temporary protection, but rather than use that term, let us call them people, accommodated in one such centre in Shannon have been relocated as of 24 June to Lisdoonvarna, as the Senator said. The relocation of these 21 people from Kilbaha is due to commence today, 11 July, and further relocations are planned for later this month. What the Minister says, however, is that every effort has really been made to keep the people affected by these moves as local as possible but given the number of moves that may take place over the next few months, this is not always possible. The only factors that can be considered when allocating follow-on accommodation are HSE-assessed medical needs. The Minister states it is not possible to take other issues such as employment or school places into account when allocating follow-on accommodation. Of course, this is coming from an accommodation perspective.

The Minister states he cannot comment on specific cases but that the Department is making decisions to end commercial contracts, in accordance with contractual terms and conditions agreed with providers, on the basis of financial, administrative or other accommodation management reasons, including compliance concerns. That is in some situations but I am not suggesting it is the case in this situation. This would allow this accommodation to return to the private sector, particularly the tourism sector, which, of course, the Senator has identified as being an important pressure that must be balanced with trying to provide accommodation to people fleeing war.

Officials in the Minister's Department work with providers to regularise contracts where possible, but all accommodation provided by the Department is temporary, and people are informed of this when they request accommodation from the State and encouraged to try to make their own arrangements, such as they can, for longer-term accommodation. The Minister asked me to say that he does appreciate this is not easy for people and that moving location can be very disruptive, especially for people who are already deeply traumatised. There is, however, a requirement to balance the need for him to provide the best care we can to all those fleeing the war in Ukraine and coming to Ireland with the requirement to make the best possible use of State funds. What the Senator said about there being a county-by-county strategy would be a very good approach and I will certainly bring this suggestion to the attention of the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman.

Senator Martin Conway

Yet again, the Minister of State continues to be the only one who brings in the replies in a format I can read. I do appreciate it. I must always acknowledge this fact because she is the only one who has ever done it in my 13 years here in the House.

That reply is really what I would have expected from the Department of integration. Clearly, everything is made up on the hoof. What is done is done now in terms of the people from Kilbaha and Shannon. They have reoriented and recalibrated their lives and they are getting on with their lives. Some of them have found private accommodation in Shannon but others have not. At this stage, to reiterate what I said earlier, what we need is a county-by-county strategy. This is particularly the case in the context of Lisdoonvarna. It will be remembered that in 2022, when the war broke out, a few communities in the country gave the big céad míle fáilte to the Ukrainians and Lisdoonvarna was one of them. We still have more than 1,000 people seeking protection in the town, whether these are people here in the context of IPAS or from Ukraine.

That is all very well but the people in Lisdoonvarna, as well as the coffee shops and the tourist attractions throughout north County Clare that benefited from all those rooms being available for people coming on a transient basis, do not benefit now. They are very patient and understanding people but really and truly, having five or six units in a town is too much. We need to see a planned reduction. The people of Lisdoonvarna will absolutely take up their responsibilities and do what they can. Equally, however, we must have a balance. I think the Minister of State gets this point. Unfortunately, though, I do not think the Minister, Deputy O'Gorman, gets it. If he did, he would be here today to respond to this Commencement matter query or he would answer my phone calls, which he does not do, or he would answer my emails, which he also does not do. Clearly, the Minister does not get it, but the Minister of State does.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I thank the Senator for again providing me with the opportunity to listen and understand the concerns he is raising regarding the balance in County Clare. I generally think the county-by-county strategy is where we need to get to, insofar as advancing the Minister's thinking in this regard already. Of course, there is a need to rationalise and manage contracts in cases where some providers have not been compliant and again, I am not suggesting this is the case in this situation. In terms of a balanced overall need, there is definitely a need to balance the economic, tourism and sheer social and personal needs involved in providing accommodation. The best way of doing this, of course, is to discuss it with local representatives.

I have certainly had a good experience with centres in Dún Laoghaire and Blackrock and in respect of a well-managed and supported process with people in Dublin. I certainly hope all the other Members of these Houses will have the same opportunity to engage and represent their broad communities, including those new people who have come into their communities, in the broadest possible way.

I will say that, as a person, I am glad that the changes that had to be made, if they had to be made, were made at the end of the school term and not during the school year. Whatever about moving children at the end of the school term, doing this during the school year is just so disruptive it really could not be countenanced. This is my only comment on this measure.

Senator Martin Conway

The transfers in Kilkee and Shannon were made during the school year.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I ask the Senator to forgive me. I had the date of 24 June. I thank the Senator.

Senator Martin Conway

That is okay. I thank the Minister of State.

Rental Sector

Senator Róisín Garvey

I thank the Minister of State for coming in. I would have loved if the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, had come into the House to deal with this issue. It is an ongoing issue because there is a lot of scaremongering and a lot of unknowns around the Airbnb sector.

We have no sight of any exemptions or plans as to what is happening with regard to planning permissions or exemptions to planning for Airbnbs. It is a huge bone of contention.

I attended a meeting in Limerick at which hundreds of people were in the room. They have all been trying to supplement their income or make a living and are doing really interesting things around Airbnb. We have three houses in horse transport boxes and resurrected caravans and all kinds of good things coming up, which is great for tourism. These people are left in a kind of no-man's land as to what is happening in respect of planning. Local authorities got no guidance from the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, whose job it is to make sure that we get this right. Of course there are issues around Airbnbs that in some circumstances could be enticed into long-term rentals to help us with the housing situation. I have no problem with that. However, there is a huge problem around ignoring the fact that many Airbnbs will never be suitable to live in on a long-term basis. They have been left in limbo and have received no guidance from the Minister. Local authorities can give no guidance to owners of these kinds of Airbnbs, that is, these creative highly entrepreneurial Airbnb offerings that people have been working hard to create. I do not know where we are going with this, as this has been ongoing for over a year and a half now. The Minister, Deputy Catherine Martin, is responsible for tourism and she is looking at the register of Airbnbs but she would also like to know what is happening here as there is no guidance coming from planning or from the Minister, Deputy Darragh O'Brien.

I would like to give people an answer as to what is happening, as they really are worried and scared about the unknowns. Once we have unknowns, they instil fear and people presume the worst-case scenarios where they are all going to be shut down forever. There are genuine concerns among people and it is important that we look at Airbnb properly and get this right. If there are possibilities around getting short-term rental houses into the long-term market, that is a good thing in terms of helping people find somewhere to live. We need Airbnb for tourism but we also need places for people to live locally, so that local businesses are not struggling with finding employees to work for them. People cannot work for these businesses if they have nowhere to live near them. This has been a huge issue for us around north County Clare because it is such a beautiful part of the country and everybody wants to come and visit. We need to consider having guidance for the people who are worried, because they have been left hanging for a year and a half now and are asking what is happening with exemptions for them under the planning rules. I urge the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, to expedite this whole issue.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I thank Senator Garvey for giving me this opportunity on behalf of the Minister, Deputy O'Brien, to update the Seanad in relation to the planning guidelines that will supplement the short-term letting legislation.

In line with the specific action in the Government's Housing for All plan to develop new regulatory controls requiring short-term and holiday lets to register with Fáilte Ireland with a view to ensuring that houses are used to best effect in areas of housing need, that is, action 20.4, on 7 December 2022, the Government approved the publication of the general scheme of the registration of short-term tourist letting Bill and for the priority drafting of that Bill, which provides for the establishment of a new registration system for short-term lettings to be operated by Fáilte Ireland. Work on the Bill is being led by the Minister for tourism and her Department. The legislation must support the development of vibrant urban and rural areas through ensuring that existing building stock is utilised for long and short-term rental, as appropriate, in order to ensure that the benefits of tourism can be effectively harnessed to provide benefit to local economies, while ensuring that the vitality and long-term housing needs of communities are maintained.

In parallel to the drafting of that Bill, the Department of housing has committed to providing planning guidelines to local authorities, which is of course what the Senator is asking about. In tandem with the establishment of the register and associated regulations, the guidance is intended to provide clarity to the short-term let sector with regard to planning requirements. Ensuring consistency in approach by planning authorities in respect of the assessment and determination of short-term letting-related planning applications on a national basis will require a careful balance between the relative need for housing and tourist accommodation in any given area. In effect, the guidelines will provide local authorities with an appropriate framework within which they can make an informed, balanced decision with regard to short-term letting planning applications, having regard to the broader needs of the local area concerned. In that regard, the Department of housing recognises that home sharing, that is, the letting of a room or rooms in a person's principal private residence, which was the original model on which the Airbnb concept was based, is an acceptable principle in support of tourism. New guidelines will allow that to continue unhindered after the enactment of the short-term letting Bill.

The Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage will engage with local authorities and other relevant stakeholders on the development of the guidelines. Officials from both the Department of tourism and the Department of housing are in regular engagement on the drafting of those guidelines. It is intended that a draft of the planning guidelines will be published by the Department of housing in conjunction with the publication of the Bill by the Minister for tourism, in order that relevant property owners, as the Senator says, can have notice as to what to expect. Stakeholder groups and Oireachtas Members will also have greater understanding of the planning requirements as the Bill is being progressed through the Houses of the Oireachtas. The final planning guidelines will then be issued by the Minister for housing upon the enactment of the short-term letting Bill. That is the sequence.

Senator Róisín Garvey

The question I am asking today is when there will be guidance around planning exemptions for short-term lets for people who have got Airbnbs that cannot be rented out long-term. The answer has not come in that there is no timeline there. Another season has gone with lots of people who have Airbnbs living in fear and wondering whether this will be their last term. Have we sight of any timeline to let people know when there will be guidance given to local authorities? When will there be guidelines on exemptions from planning for Airbnbs? Exactly what is happening? This does not answer my question. I really want to know whether there will be exemptions and when they will be announced. That is what people want to know.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I believe the Senator is asking me for the substance of the guidelines, which I do not have.

Senator Róisín Garvey

No, just the timelines.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

The Minister of State, without interruption.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

The timeline is that a draft will be published on the publication of the Bill. It will be published alongside the publication of the Bill, as I noted there in the answer. That will be in order that Members of the Oireachtas and stakeholders can have sight of what is envisaged. I think the Senator is asking me to confirm exemptions or the status of exemptions in an answer, which I cannot do.

What I can do is to give a little bit more information from the Department of housing on the context of Airbnbs more broadly. There are about 30,000 Airbnbs in Ireland. Two thirds of those are full properties. The greatest concentrations are in two central Dublin local electoral areas and in Donegal, Mayo, Galway, Clare, Kerry and Cork, all with about 1,000 listings. It is a very significant rural tourism element but as a result, it really dominates the private rental sector in those locations.

The Bill will be accompanied by planning guidelines aiming to allow for balance between tourism and housing requirements. There will be a greater focus on housing in towns where housing needs and affordability issues are pressing. The data from the Department of housing will show that the same income can be made in as little as seven to 11 days with an Airbnb as for regular rental market in a month. There is a clear economic rationale for using Airbnb but it does have a major impact in crowding out longer-term rental accommodation. In many cities, for example Barcelona, it seems to be overwhelmingly an urban issue. With the exception of the two Dublin LEAs, that does not seem to be the case in Ireland; it is much more of a rural issue. The balance is slightly skewed, in that there seems to be a different profile in Ireland than in other countries. The data is going to be very important but I am sure the Minister for housing will flesh that out in due course.

Water Quality

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter. It is unfortunate that I have to raise it in the House but it is primarily because of the lack of information that has been provided to residents in Ferns, County Wexford, by Irish Water. Uisce Éireann issued a boil water notice in Ferns on 28 June due to the detection of the presence of cryptosporidium in the local water supply. It is reckoned that 1,723 people are impacted by this and the residents of Ferns are now on their 14th day of a boil water notice. Residents are being forced to buy water for washing, for cleaning, for laundry and for drinking purposes. No tankers have been provided into the community. At a meeting of Wexford County Council this week, one of the directors of services for the council, who has been trying to get answers, told members of the council that this could take up to another three weeks to resolve.

People are living in an area potentially without a water supply for more than a month now. The real concern residents have is that there does not seem to be an end in sight. There has been a lack of communication on the part of Uisce Éireann with residents in the area. They have not been told exactly what is going on. We understand there may be testing of the waters. That has to happen. The health and safety of people living in the area has to be the first concern. However, Uisce Éireann could at least give an estimate of how long this will last and what is going on at the moment in terms of testing, to keep people informed. Communication is a basic requirement. Given this has been going on for so long, tankers should be brought in. We have seen this in other instances where there have been problems with water supplies. We had a problem with the water supply in my town, Gorey, a number of years ago, and tankers were brought in.

I am sorry to have to bring this matter before the House but it is due to the lack of information provided to people. The Minister of State can understand the importance of good, clean water. This issue is just not acceptable. It has been going on for 14 days, so far, and we reckon it could be another three weeks before the matter is resolved.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I thank the Senator. I am glad he raised the issue. It is unfortunate he should have to raise it here. However, as a Member of the Seanad, he is entirely entitled to raise matters on behalf of the community in which he lives, particularly something as concerning as a boil-water notice that has lasted 14 days. I note he said he had difficulties in terms of communication. I understand the director of services at the county council also had difficulties in terms of communication. That makes it extremely difficult to communicate with people who have to buy water in order to do basic activities. The Senator stated that tankers have not been brought in.

I have no better answer for the Senator this morning. I am very sorry to say that, because the reply I have here essentially restates what the Senator said. It simply says there has been a boil-water notice since 28 June and that I am to recognise the inconvenience of the notice, which was issued as a precautionary measure to protect the health of 1,723 customers, due to the detection of something nasty in the water supply that I cannot pronounce. The notice was issued after consultation with the HSE. On behalf of the Department, I am to take the opportunity to reinforce the advice that people should boil their water before drinking it. Uisce Éireann has indicated that its compliance and operations experts are on site.

I know the Senator already knows that because it is almost certainly the information that is available to anybody who is looking at the website, for example, and looking for a further and better answer about how long they are going to have to boil water to do basic things such as care for their infants and small children or elderly parents. People need their health maintained, quite apart from the inconvenience of having to go out and buy water to carry out extra basic activities. I know that people there are very resilient and able to do all of those things as well. However, it is reasonable to expect some measure of communication, expectation management or explanation as to the issue that has gone wrong and how it might be remedied in the future.

I am terribly sorry to say that, despite being a Member of this House and coming into this House to raise a perfectly legitimate concern on behalf of the people in his area, I cannot provide the Senator with any further or better information.

Senator Malcolm Byrne

I thank the Minister of State for her honesty, as always. It speaks to a bigger issue with Uisce Éireann. A number of us have had problems with the lack of communication before. Of course people do not want to drink water that is contaminated with cryptosporidium, but they want at least to be informed as to what is going on and have an alternative water supply made available. The behaviour of Uisce Éireann in this matter has been appalling in regard to its lack of communication with residents in the area. Of course it has to prioritise health and safety but it needs to communicate with people. I worry because this is not the first time something like this has happened. What is happening in Ferns could happen somewhere else. Uisce Éireann needs to learn to be responsive to the needs of the people in the community.

Deputy Jennifer Carroll MacNeill

I could not agree more. The people in the Senator's community will understand that things go wrong and that it is completely reasonable in any walk of life or in any part of the State services that problems will occur and will have to be fixed. However, how State services respond to problems matters as much as anything else. The lack of communication with people is evident because the Senator would not raise the matter with me this morning if it was not a significant problem.

I am embarrassed that I cannot give the Senator and the people in the area a better answer. The boil-water notice had to be raised in Seanad Éireann, at this level, when it should never get this far. The Senator and I are here, supported by all the institutions of the State, the man hours that facilitate the Seanad and everything else, and I cannot give a better answer. I certainly hope that Uisce Éireann will respond to his concern by providing better communication to the people affected. That is the only thing that matters. Perhaps it will do so through the director of services, the Senator or other public representatives in the area who no doubt are equally concerned about the well-being of their constituents.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 10.15 a.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 10.30 a.m.

Sitting suspended at 10.15 a.m. and resumed at 10.30 a.m.

Seanad Éireann debate - Thursday, 11 Jul 2024