Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters – Seanad Éireann (27th Seanad) – Tuesday, 1 Jul 2025

Nithe i dtosach suíonna - Commencement Matters

Fire Service

Senator Mark Duffy

I welcome the Minister of State back to the House. This matter is quite a niche one and affects very few individuals in the country who take up and are willing to put themselves forward and put their name on a ballot paper to represent their community, district and county. This matter relates to front-line workers who are full-time firefighters and put themselves in the way of danger at a moment's notice to protect and defend communities. They are often well-known figures within communities and are heavily involved in voluntary efforts.

That being said, full-time firefighters are not eligible or allowed to be maintained as full-time firefighters and also hold the position of county councillor. That needs to be addressed and changed, with the Minister of State's support. Retained firefighters are allowed but often, because the cap for income earned is €49,000, the retained firefighters are judged based on their retained firefighter fee but their overall income, which is often more than €49,000, is not taken into account.

This has affected a councillor in Cork in the past who had to relinquish his duties as a county councillor. As we know, because county councillors are not well resourced or well funded even in terms of pension entitlements, which are non-existent, it is financially unfeasible to consider being solely a county councillor. This has affected Councillor Robert Nash in County Louth, who was a full-time firefighter. He has stood down from his firefighting duties and is working full time as a county councillor. This is an example he highlighted to me. It needs to be addressed because we need to encourage people into local government, especially those who work on the front line within our communities. I would welcome the Minister of State's consideration of this matter and possible routes to address this. It is quite a niche matter but there is merit in addressing it. I would welcome the Minister of State's thoughts on this.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage (Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan)

I thank Senator Duffy for raising this matter. He is correct to say it is nuanced. I can see why he is taking the approach he is taking because, first, it is about firefighters, who put their lives at risk to keep us safe. The Senator quite rightly pointed out that the work of a councillor is full time. In many ways, all a person in this situation is trying to do is to do better. Then there is the other aspect, whereby people in similar roles, in the retained aspect of firefighting, can run for election. From that point of view, I can see the Senator's point.

I will set out the legislation and listen to the Senator's thoughts on that. The legislative position in respect of local authority membership is set out in the Local Government Act 2001. The Act sets out the categories of individuals who are disqualified from being elected or co-opted to become member of a local authority. Section 161(1)(a) provides that member of a local authority is not to be employed by a local authority. However, it allows the Minister to designate such classes, descriptions or grades of employments to which this restriction does not apply or to specify conditions under which the restriction does not apply.

SI 216 of 2004 is made under section 161(1)(b) and provides that a local authority employee whose maximum remuneration on the last date for receipt of nominations at a local election does not exceed the maximum remuneration for the post of clerical officer may be elected or co-opted to become a member of a local authority. These provisions reflect the provisions of Circular 09/2009, Civil Servants and Political Activity, published by the Department of Finance, now the Department of Public Expenditure, Infrastructure, Public Service Reform and Digitilisation. The matter of maximum remuneration has been raised previously and, for the avoidance of doubt, my Department issued Circular 03/2024 in advance of the most recent local elections, which clarifies “maximum remuneration” as the maximum basic salary exclusive of overtime, callout-incident attendance payment or any allowances. As of 1 March 2025, the maximum point on the clerical officer pay scale was €46,334. The maximum annual allowance paid to retained firefighters after eight years of service was €17,854, as of March 2025. This level of remuneration means that they do not exceed this threshold and can therefore contest local elections in accordance with the regulations. As of 1 March 2025, the maximum point on the firefighter pay scale was either €57,046 or €57,096, depending on the location. This level of remuneration for full-time firefighters exceeds the threshold, meaning they are ineligible to contest local elections in accordance with the regulations.

In considering any changes to legislation to include grades whose salary exceeds the maximum remuneration for the post of clerical officer, including full-time firefighters, the Minister must be mindful of prevailing provisions in the wider Civil Service. As these remain unchanged, the Minister therefore has no plans to make a new statutory instrument in this regard.

As I said at the start, I appreciate where the Senator is coming from on this and the fact these men and women are putting their lives on the line, but the point of the response is where do we draw the line on this when it comes to pay grades. What description of local authority employee do we say can or cannot contest a local election? I guess the fear is this opens it up. I will certainly bring it back to the Minister, but as it stands there are no plans to bring forward a statutory instrument to allow that to be the case.

Senator Mark Duffy

I thank the Minister of State for the reply. Obviously I am disappointed by it and I contest it. The key message in the reply is that section 161 "... allows the Minister to designate such class, description or grade of employments to which this restriction does not apply or to specify conditions under which the restriction does not apply". There is scope for flexibility there. It is a stroke of a pen. It is a power within the gift of the Minister. Regarding full-time firefighters, a small, niche group of people, perhaps one of two at maximum, would fall into it. I appreciate the Minister does not want to open that gate for a host of other elements of the local authority, but firefighters do incredible work in the community. Councillor Robert Nash does incredible work for his town and community and should not be discriminated against compared with retained firefighters who often earn over the threshold. It is something I would like to pursue further and work with the Minister of State on. Perhaps there are ways to follow through on this niche and particular issue.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

As I said, I will certainly bring it back to the Minister, but that said, I would take into account what I have said about how there is no plan as it stands. There are employees within the council set out under section 161(1)(b). Retained firefighters are one such group, considering the pay scale, but there.is a reason that legislation is there in terms of separation of powers and there is a good reason this legislation is in place to not allow council employees to run for election, especially those in certain pay grades. I get the Senator's point about the incredible work our firefighters do. It is phenomenal. We have seen many efforts being made, especially from the point of view of the retained firefighters, to get increases in their pay scale and salary and these have been successful. However, in this regard it is going to be tricky to find a path to allowing them run for election as the Senator is looking for, but we will certainly have future conversations about it with the Minister.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

As a vote has been called in Dáil Éireann, I ask Senator Duffy to propose we suspend for the duration.

Senator Mark Duffy

I so propose.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

It is agreed.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 2.41 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 2.47 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 2.41 p.m. and resumed at 2.47 p.m.

Water Supply

Senator Joanne Collins

I welcome the Minister of State. County Limerick's main county town is Newcastle West. It is a tier 2 town under the national development plan. Irish Water has advised that there has been no connection to sewerage or water as of a couple of weeks ago, when I received an email, because of construction going ahead on a site with 93 houses. Some of them had been earmarked as social and affordable houses. The site received planning permission at the end of 2023. At the beginning of 2024, 81 of the 93 houses had been commenced. Unfortunately, however, none of these houses have been finished because of the issue with water.

I have contacted Irish Water. There are three treatment plants in the vicinity. Kilcolman springs is one and Tobergal springs is another. They are in development and the outlook is that there will be some headroom for the Newcastle West supply, but not until 2028. The upgrade to Irish Water's own treatment plant in Newcastle West is still at planning and development stage. That still needs to go to tender. The agency does not expect to have anything hooked up to that until 2031. We are in the middle of a housing emergency in 2025 and this town has three rental homes as of today.

It will not only affect homes. I have also been told this will affect businesses. Any new business that comes into Newcastle West may not have a connection to water. Irish Water will take it on a case-by-case basis, dependent on the size of the development or whether it is a home or business. The only tier 2 town in the county is now in lockdown when it comes to housing.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

I thank Senator Collins for raising that issue on behalf of the people of Limerick and specifically the people of Newcastle West, which is a fantastic town. Unfortunately, it is another one of these towns and villages that have been stymied or where development has been stopped because of a lack of infrastructure.

Especially from an Uisce Éireann point of view, wastewater in particular has been a barrier to development in a lot of these towns. I will come back to that later. I will first set out the general housing outlook for Limerick county in particular and then I will come back to the specific point about Newcastle West.

Turning first to social housing, Limerick City and County Council has delivered 1,092 new-build social homes since 2022 and 228 of these were local authority built homes in the Adare-Rathkeale, Newcastle West and Cappamore-Kilmallock municipal districts. My Department is also aware of two repair and lease projects in Newcastle West, which will provide a total of nine homes for social housing tenants following the completion of renovation works later this year. The latest social housing construction status report shows that there were 717 homes on site and at various stages of design and procurement in Limerick at the end of quarter 4 of 2024.

Affordability and the chance to own a home is at the heart of the Government’s housing policy. Since the launch of Housing for All to December 2024, 445 affordable housing supports have been delivered in Limerick. Affordable housing schemes are now operating at scale and this momentum will continue as the pipeline is developed by local authorities, including Limerick City and County Council, approved housing bodies and the Land Development Agency.

Limerick City and County Council is continuing to develop its affordable housing programme. To date a number of schemes have been delivered across the county, including 21 affordable purchase homes at Woodfield Manor, Newcastle West, in 2023, seven four-bedroom affordable purchase homes at Castle Place, Newcastle West, in 2024, and a further 60 affordable purchase homes approved for delivery across three sites by the end of 2026. To further support Limerick City and County Council’s affordable housing programme, my Department has provided funding for eight dedicated administrative and technical staffing posts.

The Mayor of Limerick can also engage with Ministers on a range of policy issues through a consultative forum. The first forum was held last March and had housing on the agenda. Another forum will be held in the autumn. The mayor is also working closely with my Department on a number of housing initiatives set out in his mayoral programme, which sets out the key objectives for his five-year term.

On infrastructure needs, Uisce Éireann is in the process of developing a transformative water and wastewater service for Limerick. This involves the upgrade of the existing wastewater treatment plant in Limerick and the provision of a regional bioresource centre at the site. This will be a strategic enabler crucial for urban and regional economic growth while managing water, wastewater and environmental resources sustainably. The project is currently at the preliminary business case stage and is expected to be brought to Government for approval later this year.

To address barriers to the delivery of public infrastructure projects needed to enable housing development, the Government has established a new housing activation office in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage. The HAO will engage and align key stakeholders, including local authorities, utility and infrastructure providers to ensure that barriers to the delivery of public infrastructure projects are addressed in a co-ordinated way.

In the time I have left I will discuss the specific point that the Senator made about Newcastle West. It is frustrating. The Senator gave two timelines - 2028 and 2031 - in terms of being able to connect to wastewater or a water connection. I can understand the frustration because the timelines are a number of years away and people need houses now in Newcastle West. The key focus of the housing activation office and the reason it was set up is to remove these types of barriers and get all bodies into one room, be it a local authority, Uisce Éireann and whichever other authorities are involved in delivering this type of infrastructure, and bang heads together and remove those impediments. That is going to be key in terms of bringing forward the timelines mentioned by the Senator.

Senator Joanne Collins

I thank the Minister of State for outlining all that. He can remove the seven four-bedroom homes from his list because that is the development I am speaking about. Those are seven affordable and social homes that will not be in Newcastle West.

What the Minister of State outlined is great and it is great that the Government is trying to make a dent in housing but, like he said, 2031 is the year stated for the Newcastle West treatment plant. It is now 2025, so it will be six years before another development can be hooked up to water.

Last week, I heard somebody mention the Apple money and how some of that will be put into Irish Water. Will it be like the national development plan where 50% of that money stays in Dublin and 50% goes to the rest of the country? I ask because Newcastle West needs to be up on the list because it is the only tier 2 town in County Limerick. Also, County Limerick is the third largest county in the country, yet we do not seem to get the fair share of the pot that goes around.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

The Senator pointed out the funding to Uisce Éireann. The funding to Uisce Éireann has significantly been bolstered over the last number of years, and that includes the fresh money that has come in from the Apple windfall.

The Senator is absolutely right that we, as a Government, need to start seeing results from that, not just in Dublin but outside Dublin as well. The rural water programme falls specifically within the remit of my Department. I am absolutely making the case to ensure that a lot of that money and investment goes out to the rural towns so we can see balanced regional development.

Coming back to the Senator's point, the situation in Newcastle West, unfortunately, is replicated right throughout Ireland. Newcastle West being a significant town in Limerick surely should put it, in terms of prioritisation, quite near the top of that list because of the significant size of the town. I will work with the water directorate within my Department, the senior Ministers and Uisce Éireann to try to look at ways of bringing forward those timelines because it is too far out. Perhaps some of the consents, some of the permits or the statutory measures that they have to run and that can be done in parallel are not sequential. That might cut time as well.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

Thank you, Minister of State, for your time. We appreciate your coming to the House. We always value Ministers coming in.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

It is always a pleasure to be here.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

You are an honorary Senator at this point.

Deputy Christopher O'Sullivan

Do not say that too loudly.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

As there is a vote ongoing in the other House, we will have to wait for the next Minister of State to arrive . He is on his way, I understand.

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Michael Healy-Rae, to the Seanad. I know he is an exceptionally busy man and there was a vote in the Dáil so we understand he was delayed. We appreciate him coming to the House.

EU Funding

Senator Joe Conway

Is aoibhinn liom an tAire Stáit a fheiceáil arís agus é anseo in ionad an Tánaiste agus Aire Cosanta ag déileáil leis an Ní i dTosach Suíonna inniu, rud atá an-tábhachtach dúinn sa Teach seo agus sa tír.

Since my election to this House, I have frequently made contributions urging our Government to seriously address our practical and moral responsibility for the protection of our treasured democratic way of life in Europe. It must be clear to all in this House and in the country at large that this is incrementally under threat from what might euphemistically be called "bad actors". The vicious and illegal invasion of Ukraine is a living example of this. Other sovereign states in Europe, for example, Moldova and Georgia, are in Putin's crosshairs as we speak. Many of our European Union partners are being systematically and surreptitiously destabilised by the dark and underhand dealings and machinations of these so-called bad actors. It was with levity in my heart that I read last Saturday morning in The Irish Times that we are to sign up to Security Action for Europe, SAFE, displaying at last a recognition of European realpolitik and its ancillary need to bolster our defences. I hope the Minister of State, in the absence of the Minister, will be able to outline the measures I have no doubt make this an initiative that will augment our risible measures for defence at the moment. They add up to about 0.25% of our spending.

Only last week we witnessed a NATO commitment of 5% budget provisions for defence in the years ahead. Such a commitment is not easy for any state but, for a state like ours, starting from such a low base, it is a big ask. Such a provision is our best defence because deterrence is the best defence. We know from our history that bad actors are opportunistic. They will not engage with an opponent likely to defeat them. The 1930s showed the opportunism and brinksmanship of Hitler as he ramrodded his way across Europe through states that were ill-defended and war-weary after the Great War.

Many of us in this country will know the expression "Tadhg an dá thaobh", which implies somebody who tries to serve both sides. I am sure the Minister of State is aware of it. The phrase reflects a position manifested in a country upholding its liberal stance but not taking the pains to defend it.

I ask our Government to set to work, in very close with co-operation with NATO, to engender a grown-up, fit-for-purpose unemotional debate on neutrality. If we do not, as I have said in this House before, a lack of defence will mean we are walking in our sleep down a road to doom.

Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Deputy Michael Healy-Rae)

I am responding on behalf of the Tánaiste and Minister for Defence, who unfortunately cannot be present. On his behalf, I welcome the opportunity to respond on this matter and thank Senator Conway for his question.

The SAFE instrument, which entered into force on 29 May 2025, is an EU instrument designed to provide financial assistance to member states and support their urgent public investments in defence industrial production, aiming to increase production capacity, improve the availability of defence products and address capability gaps, particularly by engaging in joint acquisitions where appropriate.

SAFE is a component part of the broader ReArm Europe plan, which outlines concrete legal and financial means to support the defence investments of member states. Ireland is signing up to this new EU defence initiative and it is anticipated that such participation will speed up the delivery of defence capabilities. By leveraging common procurement opportunities, the SAFE regulation will enable EU member states to focus on priority defence areas and address capability gaps.

Significant progress has been made in implementing the required transformation for the Defence Forces, as set out by the Commission on the Defence Forces. Furthermore, the programme for Government committed to significant investment in defence capabilities. The new SAFE instrument has the potential to assist us in achieving further progress in this area.

As with other European member states, Ireland has significant capability gaps that need to be filled. The SAFE mechanism may provide us with the ability to fill those gaps through joint procurement where there is alignment with other member states. Procuring equipment and materiel with other member states will minimise potential barriers for accessing supply chains while also achieving economies of scale.

It is important to note that Ireland will continue to make its own decisions regarding what capabilities we require, and we will acquire these based on our national defence policy. Participation in the SAFE mechanism has no impact on Ireland’s neutrality.

The financial assistance from SAFE, which amounts to some €150 billion in demand-driven loans, will support member states that wish to invest in defence industrial production through common procurement, focusing on priority capabilities, ultimately strengthening the EU's overall defence readiness. However, there will be no requirement for member states to engage with the initiative should they not wish to do so.

The SAFE initiative offers a derogation from procurement rules that will allow existing framework agreements or contracts held by member states to be modified to add new contracting authorities, provided that the eligibility conditions for common procurement are met. Ireland may draw value regarding efficient procurement of needs within the Defence Forces’ existing detailed equipment development plan.

The programme for Government has committed to increasing investment in the nation’s defence and security. The provision of funding and the political support necessary to achieve level of ambition 2, LOA 2, enhanced capability, and move as quickly as possible to level of ambition 3, with commensurate investment as appropriate, have been clearly outlined. The SAFE instrument has the potential to support and assist Ireland in achieving this commitment.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

I welcome all our guests to the Gallery. I would particularly like to welcome John French and his guests. John works in the Houses and is held in high esteem among us here.

I also welcome the men’s shed from Navan and our guests from Carolina, USA. They are all very welcome. This is the section where we deal with Commencement matters, which is individual Senators who flag particular issues of concern to them. They bring them to the Chamber here, the relevant Minister comes and responds and there is that bit of engagement. I hope they all enjoy their stay here today and I thank them for visiting us. Senator Conway has one minute to reply.

Senator Joe Conway

I thank the Minister of State for his input. Is he familiar with a deal that was made with the French armaments company called Thales for a towed sonar device to be towed along after our naval vessels? As I was saying in the House last week, any skipper from Killybegs or Dunmore East will say that towing anything at sea is a pretty dodgy business. If they are towing something that is as precarious as looking after undersea cables or gas lines, those tow smart ropes, as they are called in the industry, are particularly vulnerable to salinity, currents, snagging, impact on rocks or on the bottom. There are so many things that can go wrong. In our new SAFE initiative, will any consideration be given by the Government to investing in a state-of-the-art diesel-electric submarine that would be built by our neighbours in Germany? It would have an ability to stay at sea for long times, to really address what is going on underneath the water and would offer a viable way of patrolling our exclusive economic zone.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

The Minister of State has one minute to respond.

Deputy Michael Healy-Rae

I thank the Senator once again for his contribution. As the Minister for Defence, the Tánaiste’s priority is to ensure the operational capabilities of the Defence Forces are maintained and developed. This will enable the Defence Forces to carry out the roles assigned by Government. Capital investment for the Defence Forces has increased as a result of the commitment by the Government to move to the LOA 2 by 2028 and LOA 3 as quickly thereafter as underpinned by the commitment to €1.5 billion in defence funding in 2028, in 2022 terms. The benefit of participating in SAFE may support Ireland achieving LOA 2 across the defence spectrum and within the anticipated timeframe in many areas, including critical infrastructure, protection and in addressing cyber and hybrid threats. The Government is determined to provide for the development of a full spectrum of Defence Force capabilities that will bring Ireland in line with similar-sized European countries. It is also important to note that Ireland has a vibrant and innovative SME sector. The SAFE regulation has the potential to deliver opportunities for the wider industry, collaboration in defence applications for SMEs in Ireland, and provide an additional route to achieving our enhanced level of ambition and capabilities in concert with our partners in the EU and beyond.

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

I thank the Minister of State for his time and for coming to the House this afternoon. I take this opportunity to welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Grealish, and his colleagues, friends and visitors from Carnmore and Claregalway to the House. They are very welcome and I hope they enjoy their stay here today.

Hospital Services

Acting Chairperson (Senator Victor Boyhan)

I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Jennifer Murnane O’Connor.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

Cuirim fáilte mhór roimh an Aire Stáit chuig an Teach seo inniu. I extend a very warm welcome to all our visitors here this afternoon. As the Minister of State will be well aware, speed is crucial for accurate diagnosis. Timely and accurate diagnosis are essential for effective treatment planning, improved patient outcomes and reduced risks. Accuracy is, of course, paramount but the speed of diagnosis can significantly impact the efficiency and effectiveness of healthcare delivery in our hospitals. Anyone who has visited the Beamont Hospital seeking the results of a biopsy or has accompanied a relative there knows all about it. This is why, alarmingly, doctors have expressed concerns over the delayed national medical laboratory IT system and have called for a risk assessment of same.

MedLIS, which is the medical laboratory IT system, has been in this country for the past ten years but so far has only been rolled out to one hospital, that being Beaumont Hospital. The Cavan-Monaghan hospital group, among others, are next in line for the MedLIS system, eventually going nationwide. MedLIS is used to log and track blood tests and medical samples. Doctors have serious concerns about this IT system and have written letters detailing 16 significant flaws with the system. They have great concerns about the basic functionality of the system and are calling for a review of same. There appears to be an issue with regard to its search and how that search is collated. They have serious concerns about the implications of this on diagnosis and treatment. Complaints that the HSE does not allow sufficient time for satisfactory resolution of issues is also a major concern for them.

In 2015, we signed a contract in this country for €33 million with Oracle Health, and in 2022, a €17.9 million extension on the basis of a national roll-out, but so far only €24.3 million of this has been spent.

More than 50 consultants and medical scientists wrote to the chief executive and the chief clinical officer with concerns. Some medical scientists have threatened strike action based on patient risk at a hospital where MedLIS has been proposed. Modern systems, we all know, are essential, but many have serious issues with doctors’ concerns not being addressed.

Oracle also supplies health records to maternity hospitals and St. James’s Hospital in Dublin. That poses the question of how efficient and accurate the system is working in these hospitals.

I have no doubt that the HSE is taking these issues seriously. Can the Minister of State elaborate on what actions have been taken to alleviate the general concerns of staff and senior management at Beaumont Hospital to ensure that the system they are operating is fit for purpose? Second, can she enlighten us on the likely roll-out of the medical laboratory IT system at other hospitals on the waiting list for such a development?

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor)

I thank the Senator for raising this important issue. I welcome the opportunity to outline the current position. The Senator is referring to the ongoing implementation of the national medical laboratory IT system. As with all clinical ICT system deployments, patient safety is the most critical element, and I am informed by the Department that issues raised by the doctors are being addressed by the HSE. I will come back to the Senator on that, but as I have been informed today, the doctors' concerns have been raised and are being addressed by the HSE. All hospital labs in Ireland are independently accredited by the Irish National Accreditation Board. Investment in digital health technologies such as MedLIS supports the delivery of the Sláintecare objectives of integrated care, patient empowerment and improved safety, and sustainability in service delivery.

MedLIS is an important national programme that forms part of a wider investment to digitise the health system under the digital for care strategy. Recognising the need for reform, our programme for Government makes specific commitments with regard to the digitisation of the health service as a key enabler for modernisation and reform. As the Senator said in his opening statement, that is very important. It is our future and that is the way we have to go. Having a single lab record enhances patient safety, enables standardisation across all labs, and improves effectiveness and efficiency throughout the healthcare service. MedLIS is a national lab system intended to serve the needs of all lab sites well into the future.

A report commissioned by the MedLIS project board to assess progress up to 2018 highlighted several findings and suggested a series of recommendations on how to improve delivery of the programme. Based on these findings, the HSE made a number of changes. Despite the impact of delays caused by the global pandemic and the cyberattack on the health service, MedLIS successfully went live at Beaumont Hospital in August 2024. One change that was needed following the cyberattack was the migration of MedLIS to a secure, cloud-based environment. Deployment of MedLIS at Beaumont Hospital had been prioritised due to existing risks associated with its legacy systems. The solution has played a significant role in advancing Beaumont’s ongoing digital transformation.

The MedLIS laboratory system deployed at Beaumont Hospital is from Oracle, a major international IT systems vendor. It is widely used throughout the world and the majority of users are happy with how it is working. The partnership and business relationship between the HSE and Oracle remains governed by the original contract signed with Cerner, now Oracle, in 2015. This contract underwent a review prior to its extension in 2022.

As with any large and complex technology implementation, there are elements that, post “go live”, will require improvement, optimisation and further change. The HSE is committed to following through on this optimisation work. Given the size, scale and complexity of the laboratory project, these issues have been very much as expected and are a testament to the close working of the project team and the laboratory teams across the hospital. The solution deployed at Beaumont is one of the most widely used hospital systems in the world and is used at over 1,500 sites. Because it operates differently from the system it replaces, it requires some changes in how people do their work.

As MedLIS is a national programme, this requires the alignment of processes across all sites. The team is actively engaged locally, working through system optimisation to streamline labour-intensive tasks and improve how the system works to benefit all staff on all sites.

Senator Robbie Gallagher

I thank the Minister of State for her detailed response. I fully appreciate that, as she outlined, it is a very big undertaking and a complex piece of work. We all understand and accept there will be teething problems. However, it is important that while doing so, we do not close our ears to what doctors and medics are saying to us and that, during the process, we listen to their concerns. We know that delayed diagnosis or misdiagnosis, which can result in delayed or perhaps no treatment thereafter, is something that causes medical practitioners grave concern. I am heartened by the response of the Minister of State and I trust that the HSE will take on board the grave and genuine concerns expressed by medics on behalf of us all.

Deputy Jennifer Murnane O'Connor

This is very important. As I said, I am informed by the Department that the issues raised by the doctors through the media are being addressed by the HSE. Significant efforts have been undertaken by the HSE to ensure that hospital teams are incorporated into the design and deployment of the MedLIS system at all hospital sites. MedLIS aims to modernise laboratory services, ensuring high-quality, efficient and patient-concentrated care across Ireland.

Officials in the Department are not aware of any other general issues regarding general diagnostics. It is important that the Senator would share the specifics with me today. He referred to the risk assessment and the suggestion that there are 16 flaws with the IT system. He might give that information to the HSE again. I know the HSE is committed to working with Beaumont on this system. It is important that all of us work together to solve whatever concerns there are. This is about patient safety and how we all work together. I again thank the Senator for highlighting this very important issue.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 3.23 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 3.32 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 3.23 p.m. and resumed at 3.32 p.m.

Seanad Éireann debate - Tuesday, 1 Jul 2025