Written Answers Nos. 405-424
405. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if his Department has ever used artificial intelligence, such as ChatGPT, in drafting Dáil speeches or responses to Parliamentary Questions; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29282/24]
View answerMy Department does not use ChatGPT or any other Artificial Intelligence (AI) to conduct business. As with all new technologies, my Department is assessing the potential of AI in the delivery of services, in line with the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) guidance on its usage in the public service, and works closely with the NCSC which encompasses the State's national/governmental Computer Security Incident Response Team (CSIRT-IE). My Department does not comment on operational security matters as it would be inappropriate to disclose information that may in any way assist those with malicious intent.
406. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the number of laptops or mobile phones owned by his Department that have been lost or stolen in each of the past ten years. [29300/24]
View answerMy Department does not comment on operational security matters as it would be inappropriate to disclose information that may in any way assist those with malicious intent. I can say however that my Department operates processes and procedures to manage assets and that lost or stolen devices are managed appropriately. My Department also continues to work closely with the National Cyber Security Centre (NCSC) which encompasses the State's national/governmental Computer Security Incident Response Team (CSIRT-IE).
407. Deputy Jim O'Callaghan asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the measures he has taken since July 2020 to facilitate the restoration and renovation for residential uses of vacant and derelict properties; his assessment of the impact of these measures; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29313/24]
View answerTackling vacancy is a key priority for this Government and Pathway 4 of Housing for All sets out a blueprint to address vacancy and make efficient use of our existing housing stock.
The Vacant Homes Action Plan, which I originally published in January 2023, built on Pathway 4 of Housing for All and set out the various actions that were being pursued to return vacant properties back into use as homes.
I recently published an update on the Action Plan a year on which shows the significant progress that is being made and it is available here on my Department's website
www.gov.ie/en/publication/df86c-vacant-homes-action-plan-2023-2026/.
408. Deputy Jim O'Callaghan asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the measures he has taken to improve the provision of social housing since July 2020; his assessment of the impact of these measures; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29314/24]
View answerHousing for All is the Government’s plan to increase the supply of housing to an average of 33,000 per year over the next decade. This includes an average of 10,000 new build social homes each year in the period to 2030. Housing for All is supported by an investment package of over €4bn per annum, through an overall combination of €12bn in direct Exchequer funding, €3.5bn in funding through the Land Development Agency and €5bn funding through the Housing Finance Agency.
Under Housing for All, the Government will deliver 47,600 new build social homes; 3,500 social homes through long-term leasing and 28,500 new affordable homes in the period 2022-2026. Local authorities have published Housing Delivery Action Plans, setting out details of social and affordable housing delivery over a five-year period, which includes details of the locations of housing projects. The Plans have been published on local authority websites.
Increased delivery of social housing is a key Housing for All objective and is supported through a range of funding streams delivered via local authorities and Approved Housing Bodies (AHBs). The number of completed new build social homes, and the number in the pipeline, continues to grow year-on-year, with new construction projects added to the pipeline regularly.
Almost 12,000 new social homes were delivered in 2023 through a mix of new builds, acquisitions and leasing programmes, an increase of 16% on 2022 (10,263). Notably, delivery in 2022 was the highest annual output of social homes in decades and the highest level of delivery of new-build social housing since 1975.
There were 8,110 new build social homes delivered in 2023, bringing total delivery to more than 25,800 over the last four years.
At end-2023, more than 22,500 social homes were at various stages of design, procurement and construction, with almost 7,100 and 15,500 onsite and at design and tender stage, respectively.
More than 1,800 social houses were acquired in 2023, with a primary focus on properties where HAP or RAS tenants had received a Notice of Termination: a similarly strong acquisitions pipeline is in place for 2024, with more than 1,500 homes expected to be acquired.
Some 2,130 new social homes are targeted through various leasing schemes in 2024.
Social housing delivery is increasing year-on-year, with preliminary data suggesting a similar increase in 2024. My Department continues to work with the local authorities and AHBs to maximise delivery for this and subsequent years, and I have introduced a number of initiatives to support them in their work and build on this momentum.
I have approved over 250 additional housing posts in local authorities nationally to deliver social housing. In order to accelerate the approval process, local authorities have options that allow them to deviate from using the 4-stage process to achieve funding approval for social housing construction projects. I have also increased the value for Single Stage projects from €2m to €8m. This increased single stage approval process takes approximately 4 weeks with my Department.
Modern Methods of Construction (MMC) has been identified as a key measure to address increased housing delivery and methods to support increased use of MMC are set out in Pathway 5 of Housing for All. In July 2023 the Roadmap for increased adoption of MMC in Public Housing delivery was published and sets out recommendations to progress the most advanced and efficient construction methods in the delivery of housing.
In December 2022, funding of €94m was provided to local authorities to address legacy land debts. The provision of this funding was linked to the immediate development of a housing proposal, a commitment to use MMC and for construction to start in 2023 or no later than 2024. A total of 26 sites received funding as part of an accelerated delivery programme, and with some additional sites since added, my Department is overseeing a project to progress delivery of MMC projects on 36 sites which will deliver more than 1,500 new social homes across 13 local authorities. A project manager was also appointed in the Housing Delivery Coordination Office to help support the social housing delivery and to manage the programme of accelerated delivery.
My Department has embedded the requirement to adopt a standardised approach for all Social Housing projects through adoption of the Design Manual for Quality Housing and Employers Requirements. Standard internal layouts and CAD Drawings are available to design teams. This is promoting a consistent approach nationally; it is decreasing the amount of time spent on reviewing proposals to achieve value for money; it is shortening detailed design phases; and it allows for a more efficient tender process.
I have also commenced Section 179A of the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended. These provisions provide that housing developments by, on behalf of, or in partnership with a local authority which commences construction before the end of 2024 will be exempt from planning permission and from the Local Authority ’Part 8’ process, subject to a number of specific conditions.
To support local authorities and AHBs to acquire land to deliver new build social housing schemes, I established the Housing for All Land Acquisition Fund in 2022. My Department is providing pre-proposal funding to encourage local authorities to undertake early site assessments in order to identify any initial issues in advance of the development of Capital Appraisal and Detailed Design.
The review of the CALF Funding Model has also brought an opportunity for the AHB and local authority sectors to bring forward both new projects and those which have been delayed due to viability issues, especially in those local authorities’ areas where the viability of schemes was traditionally an issue. The new CALF scheme has unlocked these areas for social housing delivery.
Significant progress is being made to deliver the ambitious targets contained in Housing for All and my Department is working closely with the local authorities, Approved Housing Bodies and other stakeholders to accelerate the delivery of both social and affordable housing.
409. Deputy Ivana Bacik asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage further to Parliamentary Question No. 183 of 30 May 2024, the evidence which was adduced or collated to support his Department’s contention that restriction of no-fault evictions would negatively affect supply of rental accommodation in the medium to long term; and the ways in which the recent public consultation on the private rented sector has been used to review this position. [29334/24]
View answerThe Government agreed on 7 March 2023 that the ‘Winter Emergency Period’ under the Residential Tenancies (Deferment of Termination Dates of Certain Tenancies) Act 2022 would come to an end on 31 March 2023, with deferred tenancy terminations taking effect over a staggered period from 1 April to 18 June 2023 as planned and legislated for under that Act.
My Department and local authorities are focused on implementing the additional measures that I announced in March 2023 to increase the supply of social and affordable homes. The Government plans to bolster the opportunities for tenants who wish to become homeowners or remain in situ in their rental home by requiring a landlord selling a property to first offer it to the tenant. If the tenant cannot buy their rental home, a local authority, the Housing Agency or an Approved Housing Body (AHB) will have the right of refusal to purchase the dwelling with the aim of keeping the tenant in situ. The Residential Tenancies (Amendment)(No. 3) Bill 2024 has been drafted as a priority, on the basis of the General Scheme of the Residential Tenancies (Right to Purchase) Bill which was approved by Government on 24 October 2023. I intend to submit the Bill to Government on 16 July for its approval to publish the Bill at the earliest juncture.
Under Housing for All, the Government is committed to increasing supply and protecting renters while trying to keep small landlords in the system. The Housing for All Action Plan Update (November 2023) includes Action 21 – Publish the review of the private rental market. My Department is currently finalising a review of the Private Rental sector which will inform Government on a number of potential policy measures which could be taken to support a well-functioning private rental sector in Ireland. I intend to bring this review to Government before the summer recess for approval to publish.
When Government decided, in March 2023, not to amend the Residential Tenancies (Deferment of Termination Dates of Certain Tenancies) Act 2022, enacted the previous October, a number of issues informed that decision, included reports from industry professionals on rental market trends.
In January 2023, a Society of Chartered Surveyors Ireland (SCSI) report outlined that its agents believe that 40% of sales instructions in Q4 2022 were from landlords selling their investment property. In addition, 8 out of 10 SCSI agents believed buy-to-let second hand rental units being sold at the time would not be replaced in the rental market in the next two years. In addition, a Sherry Fitzgerald report – Irish Residential Market Review - Q4 2022, Outlook 2023 - cited that approximately 21,000 property transactions last year involved investors selling their property, with just 7,500 of those bought by investors, involving a net loss of 13,500 from the rental stock.
The Government remains focused on securing the supply of much needed rental accommodation by keeping existing landlords in the market and attracting new landlords.
410. Deputy Patrick Costello asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to provide the most recent basic unit costs circulated to local authorities, which specifically relate to social housing build projects developed directly by local authorities or approved housing bodies (AHBs) on local authority or AHB-owned lands, using public works forms of contract, in tabular format. [29367/24]
View answer411. Deputy Patrick Costello asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage to provide the most recent basic unit costs circulated to local authorities, which specifically relate to the purchase of residential properties under the tenant in situ scheme, in tabular format. [29368/24]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 410 and 411 together.
The Acquisition Cost Guidelines (ACGs) and Basic Unit Costs (BUCs) are reviewed and updated as appropriate by my Department, usually on an annual basis, with the most recent update being issued to all local authorities in May 2024. I will arrange to share a copy of both the ACGs and BUCs with the Deputy.
The ACGs provide cost guidelines for the acquisition by housing authorities, of second-hand properties for the provision of social housing, including where there is a tenant-in-situ who is receiving social housing support has been issued with a Notice of Termination.
The BUCs relate to social housing build projects developed directly by local authorities or approved housing bodies on their own land, using Public Works forms of contract. While not a record of actual delivery costs, the BUCs are based on an analysis of returned data from tendered social housing schemes and act as a key benchmark for local authorities and approved housing bodies with the development and costing of scheme designs at capital appraisal stage.
412. Deputy Noel Grealish asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage when the local authority purchase and renovation loan, to support first time buyers turn vacant or derelict buildings into new homes, will be opened by local authorities for applications; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29371/24]
View answerOn 5 June Government approved a Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan (LAPR), which is expansion of the Local Authority Home Loan, to support the purchase and renovation of homes which are eligible for the existing Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant.
Under the new Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan (LAPR), a first-time buyer or Fresh Start applicant who wishes to purchase and/or renovate a Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant eligible home, but cannot get sufficient funding from commercial lenders will now be able to apply to their local authority for a LAPR.
The introduction of the Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan significantly expands the number of homes eligible under current local authority mortgage lending rules. Eligibility for the loan is subject to applicants meeting the existing local authority mortgage eligibility criteria and the project meeting the scheme lending criteria.
This reinforces the Government’s commitment to bring homes back into use, a key objective of Housing for All, while also providing another funding pathway for individuals to realise their goal of homeownership. My Department is currently finalising the statutory instrument which will underpin the LAPR and I expect the loan will be available in the coming weeks.
Further details of the scheme will be announced and will also be available on the dedicated website localauthorityhomeloan.ie/.
413. Deputy Noel Grealish asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage he plans to add the non-native/invasive freshwater fish of pike (esox lucius) and perch (perca fluviatilis) to the invasive species list recorded under the third schedule, part 2 of the European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011 (S.I. No. 477 of 2011), considering their huge negative impact on lacustrine special areas of conservation in Connemara, County Galway; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29372/24]
View answer414. Deputy Noel Grealish asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he plans to add pink salmon (oncorhynchus gorbuscha) to the invasive species list recorded under the third schedule, part 2 of the European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats) Regulations 2011 (S.I. No. 477 of 2011), considering the statement on 25 June 2025 by the Minister for the Environment, Climate and Communications, categorising pink salmon as an invasive alien species; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29373/24]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 413 and 414 together.
While my Department's National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) is responsible for legislation and policy around invasive alien species in Ireland, Inland Fisheries Ireland (IFI) has the statutory responsibility for the protection, development, and management of Ireland’s rivers and streams together with 128,000 lake hectares.
There are no plans at this time to add Pink Salmon, Pike or Perch to the national list of invasive alien species. Pike and Perch have been present in Ireland for hundreds of years and are considered to be naturalised species which are widespread across the country.
However, NPWS regularly liaises with IFI on matters relating to aquatic non-native species, including the Pacific Pink Salmon. While it is not a listed invasive alien species, NPWS will continue to monitor the situation and will be guided by expert advice provided by IFI.
415. Deputy Catherine Murphy asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the capital works projects under the remit of his Department that received EU funding in 2023 and to date in 2024; and the amount of EU funding that was received for each of those capital works projects in the years in question, in tabular form. [29395/24]
View answerThe information requested is being compiled and will be forwarded to the Deputy in accordance with Standing Orders.
|
Date of Funding Received |
Capital Works Project |
Funding Amount € |
|
01/01/2023 01/01/2024 |
Tóchar (2023-2026) (EU Just Transition Fund) [1] |
2,000,000 |
|
02/03/2023 19/05/2023 |
Galway City Salmon Weir Bridge (Designated Urban Grants Scheme) |
2,868,752 |
|
04/04/2023 |
South Dublin County Council Dodder Greenway (Designated Urban Grants Scheme) |
1,500,000 |
|
07/06/2023 |
LIFE The Living Bog Project (2016-2020)[2] |
560,811 |
|
07/09/2023 |
Wild Atlantic Nature LIFE IP (2021-2029)[3] |
2,431,913 |
|
03/10/2023 |
Corncrake LIFE (2022-2027)[4] |
859,234 |
|
13/11/2023 |
Kilkenny County Council Kilkenny Abbey Quarter (Designated Urban Grants Scheme) |
1,000,000 |
416. Deputy Anne Rabbitte asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if the housing adaptation grant or mobility aids grant scheme can be utilised to purchase sensory equipment for one’s home; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29398/24]
View answerMy Department provides Exchequer funding to local authorities to administer the suite of Housing Adaptation Grants for Older People and People with a Disability, which support older and disabled people living in private houses to adapt their home to meet their needs. The suite of grants, which include the Housing Adaptation Grant for People with a Disability (max grant €30,000), the Mobility Aids Grant (max grant €6,000) and the Housing Aid for Older People Grant (max grant €8,000), are 80% funded by my Department, with a 20% contribution from the resources of the local authority. The detailed administration of these schemes, including assessment, approval and prioritisation, is the responsibility of local authorities.
The Housing Adaptation Grant scheme provides grant funding to assist in the carrying out of works which are reasonably necessary for the purposes of rendering a house more suitable for the accommodation of a person with a disability, which includes an enduring sensory impairment. Grant aid may be considered for the provision of infrastructural and safety related adaptations to create appropriate space for applicants with specific sensory needs.
Applications of this nature should be supported by a multidisciplinary assessment of the applicant by specialist healthcare professionals. This should outline who will be responsible for therapy services and/or the provision and upkeep of sensory related equipment as the grant schemes do not fund the provision of such equipment.
The Mobility Aids Grant is for older people or disabled people who find it difficult to move around their home due to mobility issues. The grant is to improve access, by adding adaptations such as, grab rails; a ramp; a hoist, an accessible shower or a stair lift. This grant scheme does not include the provision of sensory equipment. Further details on these schemes is available at the following link:
www.gov.ie/en/service/6636c-housing-adaptation-grants-for-older-people-and-people-with-a-disability/
417. Deputy Claire Kerrane asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage when local authorities will be advised on the newly announced local authority purchase and renovation loan; when this will be available via a local authority (details supplied) for applications; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29405/24]
View answerOn 5 June Government approved a Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan (LAPR), which is an expansion of the Local Authority Home Loan, to support the purchase and renovation of homes which are eligible for the existing Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant.
Under the new Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan (LAPR), a first-time buyer or Fresh Start applicant who wishes to purchase and/or renovate a Vacant Property Refurbishment Grant eligible home, but cannot get sufficient funding from commercial lenders will now be able to apply to their local authority for a LAPR.
The introduction of the Local Authority Purchase and Renovation Loan significantly expands the number of homes eligible under current local authority mortgage lending rules. Eligibility for the loan is subject to applicants meeting the existing local authority mortgage eligibility criteria and the project meeting the scheme lending criteria.
This reinforces the Government’s commitment to bring homes back into use, a key objective of Housing for All, while also providing another funding pathway for individuals to realise their goal of homeownership. My Department is currently finalising the statutory instrument which will underpin the LAPR and I expect the loan will be available in the coming weeks.
Further details of the scheme will also be available on the dedicated website when launched. localauthorityhomeloan.ie/
418. Deputy Claire Kerrane asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage when a review into exemptions for planning permission will conclude; if he will consider including old schoolhouses under exemptions given the number of them in the State and the need to re-use such buildings for residential purposes; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29406/24]
View answerUnder the Planning and Development Act 2000, as amended, all development, unless specifically exempted under the Act or associated Regulations, requires planning permission.
The Planning and Development Act (Exempted Development) Regulations 2022 provide for an exemption from the requirement to obtain planning permission in respect of the change of use of certain vacant commercial premises to residential use, including the conversion of vacant areas above ground floor commercial premises to residential use. This measure was aimed at facilitating the productive re-use of qualifying vacant commercial buildings as homes, while also facilitating urban renewal and the bringing on stream of increased housing supply.
The exemption relates to a proposed development that consists of a change of use to residential use from Class 1, 2, 3, 6 or 12 of Part 4 to Schedule 2 of the Planning and Development Regulations 2001, as amended.
Exemptions from the requirement to obtain planning permission in respect of specific forms of development are provided for, when they are considered to be consistent with proper planning and sustainable development. While I have no plans to introduce any further planning exemptions in this area at this point in time, I would propose to keep possible further measures in this area under ongoing review.
419. Deputy John Lahart asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage the status of the work of the Electoral Commission, particularly concerning arrangements for those who cannot vote due to a sudden light illness, holiday examinations and so on, or absence due to work from the country (details supplied); the objectives he set the Electoral Commission in this regard; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29407/24]
View answerUnder electoral law, postal voting is available for a number of different categories of people including the following:
• whole-time members of the Defence Forces
• members of An Garda Síochána
• Irish diplomats serving abroad and their spouses/civil partners
• electors living at home who are unable to vote because of an illness or a disability
• electors whose occupation, service or employment makes it likely that they will be unable to vote in person at their local polling station on polling day
• full-time students registered at their home who are living elsewhere while attending an educational institution in the State,
• prisoners, and
• certain election staff employed at the poll outside the constituency where they reside.
In addition, Section 93 of the Electoral Reform Act 2022 provides for anonymous registration and a postal vote where a person’s safety (or a member of their household) may be compromised by publication of their details on the electoral register. Where a person is registered as an anonymous voter, that person is only able to vote by post.
An Coimisiún Toghcháin, Ireland’s independent electoral commission, was established in February 2023, on foot of the Electoral Reform Act 2022. An Coimisiún's research, advisory and public information function will see it carry out research on electoral policy and procedure. An Coimisiún is also empowered to advise and make recommendations to the Minister and the Government in relation to any proposals for legislative change, or any other policy matters concerning electoral and legislative proposals.
The Programme for Government - Our Shared Future contains a commitment to examine the use of postal voting, with the intention of expanding its provision. In support of this commitment, I wrote to An Coimisiún in July 2023, and outlined a number of issues that An Coimisiún might include in its initial research programme. This included the commitment in the Programme for Government relating to postal voting.
An Coimisiún’s draft research programme, published on 10 November 2023, included a proposal to examine the issue of postal voting. I understand that its finalised research programme for 2024-2026 is due to be published shortly. This policy area will be reviewed once An Coimisiún has considered and made recommendations on the issue.
420. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he is concerned in relation to the delays in dealing with disputes by the Residential Tenancies Board; whether the board has requested extra resources in terms of staff and funding; the steps he intends taking to ensure the board has enough resources to do its business in an efficient and timely manner; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29433/24]
View answer421. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage of he plans to provide further funding to the Residential Tenancies Board in order that it can reduce its fees to make the service accessible to all; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29434/24]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 420 and 421 together.
The Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) was established as a quasi-judicial independent statutory body under the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2022 (RTA) to regulate the rental sector; provide information to tenants and landlords; maintain a national register of tenancies; resolve disputes between tenants and landlords; and conduct research and provide information to inform policy. The remit of the RTB covers the private rental sector, the not-for-profit housing providers commonly known as Approved Housing Bodies (AHBs) and Student-specific Accommodation providers (SSA).
My Department is responsible for the oversight of the RTB which is underpinned by governance arrangements including an Oversight Agreement and Performance Delivery Agreement (PDA) in place with the RTB making clear the requirements for reporting to my Department, in line with the requirements of the Code of Practice for the Governance of State Bodies.
The PDA sets out both inputs and outputs and key performance indicators for which RTB is accountable and any risks to their delivery. The agreement is produced on a three yearly basis and revised annually, to reflect changes to the legislation which in turn impacts on the RTB’s mandate and resources. Monitoring of RTB performance under these agreements is done through regular communication and engagement between my Department and the RTB, including Quarterly Governance Meetings, performance review meetings and other meetings as required.
The RTB is also supported by a third party outsourced service provider who carries out the RTB’s call centre, document management and data entry functions. This contract gives the RTB the flexibility to increase resources as and when required. The outsourcer’s staff are not RTB employees.
Following recommendations in the RTB Workforce Plan, and engagement with the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform, the RTB received sanction for significant additional staff over the past five years. Recent RTB staff sanction requests which my Department has granted include: eight additional staff for the Disputes Resolution unit; and seven staff for the area of Vendor Management and a Data Management Office in December 2023. My Department continues to work with the RTB to ensure that it is sufficiently resourced to deliver on its mandate. To this end €12.2 million of funding is being provided by my Department to the RTB for 2024.
The operation of the Residential Tenancies Acts 2004-2022, the residential rental market and the Residential Tenancies Board (RTB) are kept under constant review by my Department to ensure that they are fit for purpose.
422. Deputy Eoin Ó Broin asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he will ask the Minister of State with responsibility for Heritage to meet with an organisation (details supplied) in July or August to discuss their concerns with respect to a range of heritage matters that fall within his responsibility. [29535/24]
View answer423. Deputy Claire Kerrane asked the Minister for Housing, Local Government and Heritage if he will formally meet with a rural interest group (details supplied); and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29537/24]
View answerI propose to take Questions Nos. 422 and 423 together.
I refer to the reply to Question 105 of 3 July 2024 which sets out the position in this matter.
