Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate – Dáil Éireann (34th Dáil) – Tuesday, 1 Jul 2025

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Social Welfare Payments

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I thank the Minister of State for being here to take this Topical Issue matter. I will use an individual case, but I will not say the woman's full name. I am raising the case on behalf of a person to highlight the issue I have, which is about the limitations of the supplementary welfare allowance and the manner in which it is applied. It often seems that a decision is made by the Department of Social Protection that a scheme will be put in place to respond to a need, but the scheme is then not changed and not adapted. I will illustrate my point with an example.

I am raising this issue on behalf of a woman by the name of Diane. She has survived cancer twice and during that time the mortgage on her apartment was, unbeknownst to her - let us be fair; she had a lot going on - sold to a well known vulture fund. She was struggling to repay her mortgage. A payment plan of €597 per month was agreed. She was in receipt of the other supplement, the former mortgage interest supplement, which meant she was able to keep a roof over her head. Diane has been under a lot of financial pressure on top of the fact that she is very unwell. One thing is feeding the other. The financial pressure is feeding the ill health, etc. On 17 June 2025 she received a letter from the Department of Social Protection telling her she is to be excluded from receipt of the supplement because the arrears outstanding on the loan are of such magnitude that the payment of a supplement is considered inappropriate. This puts her in a very precarious and scary place, as I am sure the Minister of State will agree. The woman is gravely ill. She has to have equipment fitted in her house and now she is in danger of losing the house.

I used this as an example because we are in the middle of a housing crisis. If this were 25 years ago, the Minister of State might say it is tough, but she will have to rent and there is support available for that and so on. However, the truth is that there is nowhere for her to rent. She is too sick to go into emergency accommodation. I do not know whether the Minister of State has seen it. This is with no disrespect to the people who work in it, because I am sure they are doing their best, but you would not want to be in it in the whole of your health, never mind gravely ill.

I have engaged with the Department of Social Protection on her behalf. The response I got is that she can appeal the decision. The Minister of State and I both know what the result of the appeal will be. I understand she will tell me she cannot pre-empt it and I do not want to either, but I have a feeling the appeal will go the same way as the application because the grounds on which it was refused still stand. This is the scheme of last resort, if you will. This is where people go when they have been everywhere else. There are currently 26,000 people in mortgage arrears. Some of them have a mortgage that has been sold to a vulture fund, others do not. Illnesses and personal circumstances are a really big push factor in people going into long-term arrears. Everyone deserves to stay in their home. This example is somewhat of an outlier, but it illustrates the fact that the supplementary welfare allowance is not adequate for the demands being made on it at the moment. It has not kept pace with what is happening currently and it is not fit for purpose in the housing crisis we are in at the moment.

Minister of State at the Department of Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science (Deputy Marian Harkin)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue. The Deputy will recognise that I am taking this on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Calleary, and I hope she will recognise that I cannot answer on a specific individual. It is not because it is not important. It is. It is absolutely crucial and I would never say in response that it is tough. However, it is a specific case and will have to be dealt with in that way. The only answer I can provide is more generalised. However, if the Deputy would like me to speak to the Minister, I would be happy to do so.

To come back to the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, as the Deputy said, it is the scheme of last resort, the safety net in the overall social welfare system. It provides assistance to eligible people in the State whose means are insufficient to meet their needs and those of their dependents. Supports under the scheme can include a basic weekly payment, rent supplement, other weekly or monthly supplements in respect of certain expenses or additional needs payments. The basic supplementary welfare allowance provides immediate assistance for those in need who are awaiting the outcome of a claim or an appeal for a primary social welfare payment or who do not qualify for a payment under other State schemes. Basic supplementary welfare allowance is paid at rates up to €242 per week with increases for adult and child dependents. Currently, there are approximately 11,000 recipients of the payment.

Rent supplement provides short-term income support to eligible people living in private rented accommodation whose means are insufficient to meet their accommodation costs and who do not have accommodation available to them from any other source. There are approximately 6,600 recipients of this supplement. An additional ongoing supplement may also be provided to help with ongoing needs, including for heat, travel and other ongoing costs. The Department of Social Protection may also make additional needs payments to help to meet essential expenses people cannot pay from their weekly income or other personal and household resources. This payment is available to anyone who needs it and qualifies for it, whether that person is currently receiving a social welfare payment or working with a low income.

Approximately, 83,000 additional needs payment were issued in 2024. Payments are made at the discretion of the officers administering the scheme, taking into account the requirements of the legislation. The community welfare service in the Department administers the supplementary welfare allowance schemes and can enable a flexible approach to meet the income needs of vulnerable individuals and families. The community welfare service is committed to providing a quality service to all citizens, ensuring applications are processed and decisions on entitlement are made as quickly as possible. Where a person has an urgent or immediate need, every effort is made to ensure the claim is processed on the same day. Community welfare officers are very experienced and can generally assess when a case is so urgent that it requires an immediate response.

Deputy Louise O'Reilly

I appreciate that the Minister of State is here. She listed the qualities of the scheme, including flexibility and so forth. However, here is the thing: ESB Networks considers Diane to be a vulnerable customer. It has put her in the category of a person who should not have her electricity cut off because she is a vulnerable customer and person, not due to any wrongdoing on her part. It is because she is sick. She has not done anything wrong. Some 16,000 people are homeless. She does not want to have to join them. However, it seems that the scheme is not fit for purpose if it is not able to encompass people who have a need of that nature. If it is the case that she cannot pay her mortgage, we both know what the consequences will be. The State will have to examine emergency accommodation. I can tell the Minister of State now that her health needs are such that emergency accommodation would not be appropriate for her. She is not eligible to go onto the social housing list because she currently owns a home. The point I am making is that there are lived realities for people. This is the scheme of last resort, and this is her last resort. The first thing she did was not to pick up the phone to me. She has tried everything.

It is not the case that she has just simply picked up the phone. She has been trying to fight this herself but it is really hard.

I will send the details to the Minister's office but I also ask that the Minister of State would raise with the Minister for Social Protection the need for not just flexibility but responsiveness to the lived reality of people.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I thank the Deputy, and I can hear that this is an issue of real concern for her and the people involved. I thank her for raising the matter. I wish to assure the Deputy that the supplementary welfare allowance scheme is kept under review. The issue is to ensure it continues to support those most in need of assistance.

The delivery of crucial community welfare services to meet the challenges and needs of citizens across the country remains a priority for the Minister, Deputy Calleary, and his Department. As I said, I will bring this specific issue to his attention because it is important that the community welfare service remains an accessible, flexible and responsive service to meet the varied needs of vulnerable people, particularly in a time of crisis or emergency. I think that is what the Deputy is speaking of here this evening.

The Department of Social Protection is committed to a community welfare service that remains flexible to meet the varied needs of vulnerable people and the current availability of local access to a community welfare officer is a key feature of the service. Community welfare officers are available at over 50 Intreo centres nationwide. Consultations with community welfare officers can be arranged via phone or at their offices or a direct home visit can be facilitated depending on the customer's needs.

As I have already mentioned, the scheme is there to provide immediate and flexible assistance to those in need. Officers within the service are very experienced in assessing the needs of each applicant and providing the relevant payment for their specific needs. Any person who considers he or she may have an entitlement to supplementary welfare allowance is encouraged to contact their local community welfare service. There is a national community welfare contact centre in place. I have the phone number here, but it is easy to find, and that will direct callers to the appropriate office. It is 0818 607 080.

If the Deputy has any particular cases, the Minister, Deputy Calleary, invites her to share those details with his office.

Renewable Energy Generation

Deputy Alan Kelly

I thank the Minister of State for being here but I have to start by saying the tradition of Topical Issues being dealt with by the appropriate Departments and Ministers needs to come back. It is not fair on the Minister of State, Deputy Harkin. She is not in that Department. It is a retrograde step that any time there are Topical Issues here, the chances of having a Minister from the Department are few. There are three Ministers in this Department and not one of them could be here in front of the House. I do not think it is right.

I raise the issue of biogas plant across Ireland. We have a commitment with regard to 5.7 TWh of production by 2030. I was at a public meeting in Ballymackey outside Nenagh recently with other public representatives, and the idea of putting an industrial-scale plant into a small location like that, where you have to stop on the road to let another car pass, is absolutely bananas. It does not have the infrastructure for it.

I actually believe in these renewables and in this whole technology but given that we are going to have between 200 and 250 of these plants all over the country, we have to start asking serious questions about why we have not got regulations on this before we start doing it. Why have we not got planning guidelines on these before we start doing them? It is absolutely incredible that in 2025, we do not have planning guidelines or regulations regarding this technology, which we need. However, we also need to ensure communities understand and have rules around which they can engage on where these plants are going to be put in place, and that is not happening.

With regard to a number of these plants, whether they are currently economically viable is very questionable. The locations where some of these plants have been proposed are being fought across the country because there is a lack of public and community engagement. I have been a local TD and public representative of various strands for the last 20 years. The developer of this industrial plant just outside Nenagh, where I am from, never came near me. He may have gone to other Deputies but he did not come near me. The community has not been engaged with in any way, shape or form that is worth talking about.

We really need to look at how we are going to ensure there is a system in place for the regulation and planning of these. We also need to look at the economic modelling of them; what tariff is going to be in place; how many of them we need; how much they should be spread geographically with regard to our agricultural production across the country; where are they needed more than other places; what types of locations they should be in; or whether they should be urban or rural, on the edges of towns, out in small and isolated areas. We also need to look at the whole issue of regulation as regards European law, the water framework directive and the nitrates directive; how health and safety will come in here; and the role of the EPA, and the fact that the EPA does not have the regulatory powers with regard to this area either. We also need to look at the whole issue of food production and how this will impact food production into the future.

This needs a mapping plan. It also needs a regulatory plan and planning guidelines. None of this is in place. I have no doubt, as the Minister of State represents a rural area, that it will come to her home as well. Communities up and down the country are basically saying they respect that these technologies are needed and that we have targets to get as a country. However, let us not put the cart before the horse. Let us put in place the regulations, planning framework and the totality of what is required here on a national level, and then we move. At this moment in time, it is impossible for communities to actually do that.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I thank Deputy Kelly, and I am happy to respond on behalf of the Minister. I am sure the Deputy, as a former Minister, will know the calls on Ministers and in some cases they cannot be here. In that context, I am happy to be here.

What the Deputy said is right. Biomethane will play a crucial role in Ireland reaching its decarbonisation targets and security of energy supply, and Ireland is uniquely positioned to develop a sustainable biomethane sector due to the nature of the agricultural sector in our country. I know the Deputy recognises that.

Government has committed to deliver up to 5.7 TWh of indigenously produced biomethane per annum by 2030. The national biomethane strategy is Ireland’s first major policy statement on biomethane and is an important milestone in the development of this indigenous sector.

The strategy sets out 25 actions to be delivered in the coming years to enable the development of the sector. Along with providing supports and policy certainty, these actions aim to improve the development timelines and economics of projects in order to meet the 5.7 TWh target by 2030.

Delivery of this ambitious target will require the development of a significant number of anaerobic digester, AD, plants throughout the country. Biomethane within our energy system will have multiple cross-sectoral benefits. Biomethane can replace natural gas in various sectors, reducing the need for imported fossil fuels, and I think the Deputy will agree that is an important objective. Biomethane is a carbon-neutral fuel, contributing to the reduction of greenhouse gas emissions. Biomethane production offers a sustainable way to manage organic waste, another crucial issue for Ireland. The development of biomethane industry can create jobs and stimulate the rural economy, and having an indigenous source of renewable gas improves energy security.

While ADs used to produce biogas and biomethane can bring significant benefits to the communities and local environment in which they are located, they are, as the Deputy rightly said, significant infrastructure that will impact on the environment, biospheres and local communities.

The Government recognises the urgent need for the introduction of planning guidelines for suitable locations for biomethane plants. Priority deliverables under the national biomethane strategy include actions 5F and 5G which will see the development of planning guidelines to support local authorities when assessing AD plants with planning applications and a review of resourcing requirements of key Government agencies to support development of the industry.

We need a clear understanding of AD technology and consistency of approach by our planning authorities when they are assessing AD projects to improve our planning and permitting processes. These guidelines of which the Deputy spoke will be developed by the biomethane implementation group, chaired by the Department of Climate, Energy and the Environment and in close collaboration with the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Teagasc and the SEAI.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I am aware of the group. I also have a degree of sympathy in the sense that I believe the previous Government, of which the Minister of State was not part, did very little on this. The new biomethane group was set up. However, I would like the Minister of State to answer the following. When will the regulatory framework be put in place? What are the timelines on it? She has not told us. Second, in regard to planning, every county development plan in Ireland says something different on this. I have gone through a few of them and they say totally different things. How is that right? How can a national strategy be implemented spatially, and there is a spatial element to this given the nature of our agricultural country, when there actually are no planning guidelines? We need regulations in relation to a whole range of different things such as emissions and noise among others. However, we also need spatial planning. There is a tariff required here for how things are going to operate. None of this is done, and yet we are expecting local authorities to process planning applications on this in isolated rural areas where massive industrial plants will be put in place. It is nuts; it is crazy; it is bananas; it is just stupid.

I support this technology, but I want to see a plan where we know spatially and geographically where we need to put all of these, what size we need to put in each place, what tariff will be in place to make it economically viable, and what type of waste is going into all of these plants. We need to do so through a regulatory framework that exists, an economic framework that is viable and planning guidelines so that local authorities are not looking at this and saying they want to do the right thing from a climate change point of view but they literally do not have a clue or any guidance on it. I know the new Coimisiún Pleanála has basically said it needs advice from the Government in regard to the gas plant proposed for liquid gas in Foynes. Something similar needs to happen here. An coimisiún also needs to tell the Government in this regard that it cannot make decisions unless regulations and planning guidelines are in place.

Deputy Marian Harkin

Ireland is recognised as having one of the greatest potentials for biomethane in Europe per capita due to our substantial agricultural sector. The Government's target of producing 5.7 TWh of indigenous biomethane by 2030, which is a little over 10% of our current natural gas use, will remain a Government commitment. The Deputy will know that an Irish anaerobic digestion and methane sector will bring highly significant benefits to the Irish economy, to our energy security and climate targets.

The Deputy asked for a timeline. I cannot give a timeline, I do not have it here, but I did say already that guidelines are being developed by the biomethane implementation group. I can certainly pass on the Deputy's request to the relevant Minister. The Deputy also mentioned about the type of waste. By using sustainably produced feedstocks, including grass silage, animal slurries and food waste resources, we will increase our circular bioeconomy, helping to build resilience in our local biological resources and environment.

It is recognised that these AD plants are significant infrastructure and, as the Deputy quite rightly said, require a full planning and permitting process to ensure consideration of a range of factors, many of which he mentioned. These include location, visual impact, land zoning plans, ecology, and the Deputy mentioned the economies, etc. As such, a key priority is the development of centralised planning guidelines for AD plants to support our local authorities. When finalised, these will be available on the biomethane information hub.

As I said, I do not have a timeframe but I will certainly pass on the request to the Minister.

Education and Training Boards

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach for allowing me to share time with my colleague in south Tipperary, Deputy Michael Murphy, on this issue as it is of concern to both of us.

Management of the Tipperary ETB shared devastating news with the local training initiative co-ordinators, LTIs, at four centres in south Tipperary. It informed them that due to budgetary constraints from SOLAS, the LTI programmes will cease at the end of this existing term. This is shocking news. Tipperary ETB made it clear that it has received a challenging budget allocation from SOLAS for 2025. Despite ongoing engagement, it has been unable to secure enough funding to sustain the current level of further education and training programmes. Following a review of the funding, it has taken the decision to discontinue the LTIs. This is a retrograde step.

I understand the Minister of State met the chair and some officials of the ETB in Tipperary yesterday. Cahir Development Association, the Spafield Family Resource Centre in Cashel, Knockanrawley Resource Centre in Tipperary town and Littleton community programme are the four concerned. However, the LTIs cannot be lost. They are an essential lifeline and pathway to continuing education for early school leavers, some who might not have been suited to mainstream education and some who are returning to education. Many have progressed successfully. I have spoken to many people today who are affected by this decision, whose futures have been pulled from them with the news that the course they enrolled in has been pulled like this. The tutors, and I salute the tutors, are very dedicated and interested in these people progressing. It is sad. I met former LTI participants who completed the programme in Cahir Enterprise Centre. They now work in the very same enterprise centre and are so pleased that they got that second chance, the opportunity to better themselves when they might not have been able to do so at mainstream school.

I am pleading with the Minister to engage with SOLAS to review the funding allocations for Tipperary ETB and this programme to have it restored. I believe Tipperary ETB is a victim of its own success because there are so many different courses and programmes. This is not the one to take away. No one wants any of the further learning courses to be taken away but these are the very people we talk about who are on the margins and have not been able to come through. It gives them a second chance. It is wonderful. I have been at so many ceremonies and presentations of certificates and have seen the pride on their faces and on their families' faces that they have got a second chance and are now back in full-time employment, thanks to the lifeline of the LTI. It is so important. I know the Minister of State understands that through her own area of Sligo, and she is very compassionate on this issue. I appeal to the Minister of State that we have to go back to the drawing board.

Deputy Michael Murphy

I agree with Deputy McGrath. This decision by the ETB to cut vital local training initiative programmes across Tipperary should be urgently reversed. I acknowledge the critical role played by these programmes in our communities, particularly those delivered at the Spafield Family Resource Centre in Cashel, the Knockanrawley Resource Centre in Tipperary town, the Littleton community programme and the Cahir Development Association. These are not just training schemes; they represent essential pathways for the most vulnerable in society.

I am deeply concerned about the impact of these cuts on the most vulnerable in society. I am, therefore, appealing to the Minister of State and to the ETB to reverse the decision.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I thank the Deputies for raising the issue. I had a positive meeting yesterday with representatives of Tipperary ETB. I was encouraged to hear about the good work ongoing. We had a good conversation and agreed that there are challenges. We are trying to work to manage those challenges in the best way possible.

To come to the issue raised by the Deputies, ETBs, as they know, support community-based groups by providing funding for intervention projects that provide a range of learner-centred training and related services. These initiatives aim to assist individuals or groups experiencing exclusion and labour market disadvantage to either enter or re-enter the labour market. As both Deputies said, these are important initiatives. Local training initiatives, LTIs, are one example of this kind of initiative. However, LTIs, by their nature, are temporary and often high-cost initiatives designed to meet specific community needs.

As the State agency responsible for the further education and training sector, SOLAS allocates funding to 16 ETBs and other agencies to deliver further education and training, FET, programmes. Each ETB must prioritise and manage delivery of further education and training programmes strictly within its allocated budget. SOLAS has provided an allocation of €35.5 million to Tipperary ETB for 2025. This is an increase of nearly 22% of funding provided since 2020. This funding supports over 9,600 learner enrolments in FET. Activities funded range from post leaving certificate, PLC, courses, to Youthreach, apprenticeships, reskilling and upskilling courses, and adult literacy courses, including English language tuition.

Tipperary ETB has advised my officials that a comprehensive review of all FET provision was undertaken to ensure alignment with the available budget. Further to this review, Tipperary ETB has advised it has made the difficult decision not to continue funding several LTIs. This decision affects four LTIs located in Littleton, Cahir, Cashel and Tipperary town. These LTIs are funded on an annual basis and subject to a business review. Tipperary ETB has met with all four LTIs in question and informed them of the funding position for the remainder of 2025. It is now a matter for the each LTI board to consider its options.

Tipperary ETB informed my Department that no current learners were impacted as all have completed their programmes. The impact is on the availability of places for new learners for the remainder of 2025. I am not minimising the effect, but am telling the Deputies what the situation is.

I hope the Deputies will appreciate that the Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science has no role in the day-to-day operational management of ETB boards, which are independent statutory bodies. In line with its functions set out in the Act of 2013, it is the responsibility of each board to plan and deliver services throughout the year, subject to its available budget and local needs. Tipperary ETB has advised the Department's officials that due to the high costs and low learner numbers associated with delivering these four LTI programmes, it has taken the difficult decision not to renew funding for 2025, while it assesses priorities and community needs in line with available funding.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am disappointed to hear that. There is clearly a misunderstanding because there are students who have enrolled for courses in September. That is inaccurate information that Tipperary ETB has supplied to the Minister of State.

I will quote the comments of a student, who said the course made them come out of their shell a lot. The student said it is the best thing they have done and went on to say that everyone was friendly and the work was fun. The student said that the course helped them to become more confident and to find a path. Those were the words of just one of the participants.

A second student said that looking back at the person they were last year and the person they are now, they realised there had been a big change. The student thanked the LTI co-ordinators. They have done so much. I have spoken to them today. There are students who have enrolled for September so that is not true information. I am pleading with the Minister of State.

I will say a focal scoir because I am sharing time with Deputy Michael Murphy. The National Training Fund was established by the National Training Fund Act 2000 as a dedicated fund for schemes. It aimed to raise the skills of those in employment and provide training to those who wished to acquire skills. This fund now can be used by the Department to support Tipperary ETB and the other ETBs throughout the country. I appeal to the Minister of State to go back to the drawing board and ensure these people are allowed to continue on their career paths.

Deputy Michael Murphy

We need to be very honest here. One of the reasons we find ourselves in this position is that while the most recent national wage agreement included a 3.5% increase, only 2% of the funding was provided by the Government. The other 1.5% must be absorbed from the existing budget.

I ask the Minister of State to urgently rethink this decision and to engage with the ETB in Tipperary. I spoke to some of those students who have enrolled for September. These are vulnerable students who are devastated by this decision. I appeal to the Minister of State to intervene.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I fully recognise the value of these courses. To be clear, what Tipperary ETB informed my Department is that no current learners are impacted as they have completed their programmes. However, Deputy Mattie McGrath was right to say that the impact is on the availability of places for new learners for the remainder of 2025. The Deputy was quite right to say that.

My Department is committed to supporting a FET system that helps individuals succeed, boosts economic growth and prepares our workforce for the challenges and opportunities ahead. This commitment is underpinned by a significant investment of over €1 billion in 2025. While the FET system is demand-driven, ETBs must operate within their allocated budgets.

As I outlined in my opening remarks, planning and delivery of services by ETBs is rightly a matter for each individual board, taking into account its allocated budgets and the specific needs of its local community. The Deputies would agree that it would be neither practical nor appropriate for a Minister of State to become involved in the day-to-day operational decisions of these autonomous bodies. However, I recognise what the Deputies are saying. As I said, I had a great meeting yesterday with representatives of Tipperary ETB. I see the valuable and important work they are doing. However, the ETB has made the decision at this point within the resources that have been allocated to it. That is its responsibility. However, I hear what the Deputies are saying. I thank them for their intervention and for highlighting these important courses and their value and impact on people's lives.

Swimming Pools

Deputy Michael Murphy

I will be sharing time with Deputy Mattie McGrath.

I want to speak about a reply I received from Tusla to a parliamentary question I asked of the Minister regarding the future of the swimming pool on the Ferryhouse campus, just outside Clonmel. The reply stated that unfortunately, due to significant mechanical and electrical issues identified, Tusla deemed the pool at the end of its life and unsafe to use. The decision was made in the absence of the full consultant's report, including the magnitude of the costs involved.

I fully understand and recognise the importance of safety. I understand the technical issues raised. However, I must express in the strongest possible terms the devastating impact this closure will have on the people of Clonmel and the wider region.

Until its closure in February this year, the pool served more than 500 children each week, many of whom were learning essential life-saving swimming skills. Among them were children and adults with disabilities, members of the great Dolphin Swimming Club, who depended on this facility for inclusive and therapeutic physical activity in a safe and supportive environment. It was the highlight of their week, and it was taken away from them by the leadership team at Tusla that made that decision. The swimming pool was far more than a recreational amenity. It was a vital community resource that promoted well-being, inclusion and social cohesion. For decades, it has brought children, families and local swimming clubs together in a healthy and positive space. Its loss will be profoundly felt across generations.

In parallel, I ask Tusla to immediately engage with local stakeholders. Transparent and collaborative dialogue is essential if we are to identify a path forward. Moreover, within Tusla's own operations at the Ferryhouse complex, a functioning swimming pool offers considerable value, not just to the community at large but also as a facility that supports the physical and mental well-being of its service users and staff. As a matter of urgency, I urge the Minister of State to intervene and to reconsider this disheartening decision. I am calling for the exploration of all possible options, whether through investment, refurbishment or interim measures that will allow this critical facility that is Ferryhouse swimming pool on the Ferryhouse campus to be brought back into use.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I thank the Ceann Comhairle and her team for allowing both of us to contribute on these Topical Issue matters tonight. I also thank the Cathaoirleach Gníomhach for his latitude. I also appeal to the Minister of State regarding this issue. I have many questions about Tusla and its operations. This facility we are talking about has been renowned for half a century and more. The Dolphin Swimming Club and many others have done tremendous work there. The two issues we are bringing to the floor of the Dáil tonight concern people with certain disabilities and from vulnerable backgrounds. If we are to be any good to ourselves and our constituents, then these are the very people we have to look after. They need that support.

I want to see the report Tusla is saying it has. We have been told this is about an electrical problem. A full report, however, is supposed to have been done but it has not been published. It has not been given to anyone. Frankly, I do not actually believe the situation here. It is a contrived issue to try to remove all activities from Ferryhouse and to allow more and more offices for Tusla. It is not acceptable. This is a facility that has looked after deprived children for more than half a century. The Brothers were there first and then the staff, and they did a wonderful job. We need honest answers. Why is Tusla taking over this property? I have other calls to make this property into a special needs education facility for County Tipperary but this is not the topic we are discussing tonight. We are talking about the Dolphin Swimming Club and the jobs and employment. More importantly, this is about the children using the swimming pool - including young adults and everyone - and learning to swim. I brought my own kids there when I was young. We are asking the Minister of State to please intervene.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I thank the Deputies. I can hear that both of them are greatly concerned about what has happened. Regarding the length of time the pool has been out of action, significant mechanical and electrical issues have been identified at the Ferryhouse pool and sports complex. The pool was closed due to a failure of the electrical periodic testing in response to a notification of hazard issued by the electrical contractor on 20 February 2025. On receipt of this information about a significant issue with the pool, it needed to be drained and, unfortunately, will remain closed until further notice.

Turning to the reopening of Ferryhouse swimming pool, Tusla commissioned a mechanical and electrical consultant to carry out further investigations, which saw significant mechanical and electrical issues identified during an assessment. Regrettably, due to these issues, the mechanical and electrical plant serving the pool and sports complex has been deemed to be at end of life and unsafe for continued use. Tusla received an initial cost report at the end of June from the mechanical and electrical consultant, which includes an estimate of the associated costs for mechanical and electrical works only. Tusla has since requested a detailed breakdown and prioritisation of the works required. Tusla fully understands and regrets, as does the Minister, the closure of the facility to members of the public. However, at this point in time and awaiting more details on costs involved, Tusla is not in a position to provide further information regarding the future of the complex. The delay in resolving this matter is primarily due to the complexity of the sports and pool facilities at the Ferryhouse campus. The assessment conducted by the mechanical and electrical consultant required considerable time to complete, followed by the drafting of the preliminary report. Additionally, compiling the full scope of associated costs requires input from various specialist services.

Tusla’s core priorities lie in the delivery of essential services for children and families, including child protection and welfare, educational welfare, psychological services, alternative care, family and community-based supports, and early years services. In this context, significant investment in a public sports complex and pool may not align fully with the organisation’s primary remit. As such, any decisions regarding the future of the facility will need to be carefully considered in light of the more detailed final report and cost analysis.

Tusla is in the process of developing a capital plan to invest in Tusla services on the Ferryhouse campus. This investment will see the campus utilised by various services across Tusla, including, but not limited to, social work services, therapy services, regional services, workforce learning and development and separated children seeking international protection. Those are just some of the services. All these services will benefit the local community.

Moving to the next steps, which I know are what the Deputies are interested in, further discussions with the local authority and the local sports partnerships will now be required on the future operating model and appropriate funding mechanisms given the scale of investment required and the ongoing operating costs associated with the operation of the swimming pool. Tusla welcomes suggestions from local authorities or sports partnerships to work together to find a way forward to the resolution of the closure of the swimming pool. Tusla will continue to engage with all stakeholders to find an appropriate solution for the long-term future of the swimming pool at Ferryhouse.

Deputy Michael Murphy

I have to ask where the report is. There has been no engagement with local stakeholders. This is the reality of the situation. I fully accept Tusla's core competencies in respect of looking after children, but is there a greater gift to give to a child than the opportunity to learn how to swim? The wonderful thing about most activities in the water is that in many cases mobility issues as a result of a disability are greatly reduced. Exercise is often a challenging topic for an individual with a mental or physical disability. Swimming, though, is not only fun and rewarding but also a great way to keep fit and healthy, and without the challenges that would normally be found with outdoor exercise or in a gym environment. The nearby Clonmel swimming pool is at full capacity. There is a five-year waiting list for swimming lessons. I again urge the Minister of State to intervene, to engage with the facilities manager in Tusla and reconsider this disheartening decision. I am calling for the exploration of all possible options, whether through investment, refurbishment or other interim measures that will allow this critical facility to be brought back into use as it has been for the last 25 years, with 500 children a week, some of them with disabilities, getting lessons.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I too support my colleague and implore the Minister of State in this regard. I have an issue with Tusla. God forgive me, it cannot even account for the approximately 50 children who have gone missing in State care in recent years. There is a meeting here to discuss this tomorrow as well. Why is Tusla involved in this premises at all? It is a wonderful facility. As I said, we have two wonderful schools in Cashel, Scoil Aonghusa and Scoil Chormaic, with great records of providing special needs education but we need another such school in south Tipperary. Nenagh is getting one and that is badly needed. The area we are talking about is on the border with west Waterford. I think Tusla needs to be removed from this institution. It has not engaged, as Deputy Murphy said, and is not listening. It has no intention of engaging with stakeholders either. I am, therefore, pleading with the Minister of State to intervene and keep this facility. The people providing the lessons are employed and have contracts.

Surely they have some rights as well. Clonmel swimming pool has a five-year waiting list. I thank Rockwell College, which is helping out, but it just cannot function. It is a big town and a big part of Tipperary so this is not acceptable.

Deputy Marian Harkin

All I can say is what I said in response to the Deputies earlier, which is that further discussions will be required on the future operating model. I cannot say more than that. The appropriate funding mechanisms will have to include the local authority and local sports partnerships given the scale of the investment required and, as the Deputies are aware, the ongoing costs of operating a swimming pool.

The Deputies asked about a report. The report received by Tusla, which was from the mechanical and electrical consultant, just includes an initial estimate of the associated costs of the works that are needed. Tusla requires a detailed breakdown and prioritisation of the works that are required. It regrets the need to close the facility to members of the public but awaiting more details of costs, it is not in a position to provide further information regarding the future of the complex. The Minister emphasises that the core priorities of investment for Tusla lie in the delivery of services that are essential to meet Tusla's functions, including child protection and welfare, educational welfare, psychological services, alternative care, family and community-based supports and early years services. In this context, significant investment in a public sports complex and pool may not align fully with the organisation's primary remit and, as such, any decisions regarding the future of the facility will have to be carefully considered in light of the final report and cost analysis. The Minister again stresses that further discussions will be required on the future operating model and appropriate funding mechanism with the local authority and sports partnerships given the scale of the investment required and the ongoing costs associated with the operation of the swimming pool. Tusla welcomes suggestions from the local authority or sports partnerships to work together to find a way forward to resolve the need to close the swimming pool.

Suicide Prevention

Deputy Aidan Farrelly

I thank the Minister of State for taking the time to be here this evening. I am really grateful for the opportunity to raise the very important issue of suicide prevention. I am raising it from a place of concern and from a place of care - care for anyone who is grieving the loss of a partner, a family member or a friend and care for everyone who has dedicated their professional life to contributing to better outcomes when it comes to suicide and mental health in Ireland.

The most recent statistics available to us are from 2021. In that year, 512 people died by suicide. For every ten people who died by suicide in Ireland that year, eight were men, yet several studies have shown how less likely men are to seek out mental health supports. Research by Queen's University from last year showed that 70% of male victims of domestic violence had considered suicide. Ireland ranks in the bottom half of 42 countries in terms of adolescent well-being, while our youth suicide rate is above the international average.

Statistics, however, are not what matters in this debate. I am sure the Minister of State will point to the decreasing number of deaths by suicide in Ireland in recent years. I acknowledge the wonderful work being done by the HSE and by youth workers, therapists, school communities, social workers, volunteers, communities and society and I take this opportunity to commend the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, on her commitment to mental health, especially when it comes to capital investment.

My considered concern this evening, however, is for the men of Ireland, be they young, middle aged or older, who feel like they cannot say something out loud about their mental health and who feel like they cannot seek support. In their Journal article, Shane O’Donnell, Noel Richardson and Aisling McGrath contend that conformity to masculine norms within university settings has been attributed to men’s reluctance to seek help for mental health problems. These norms could be described as toughness, emotional control and self-reliance so I raise this issue to encourage anyone who might stumble across it, be they young or old. I wish to remind us all, but especially the eight in ten men, how normal it is to be the opposite of tough, to be reliant on others and to be supported. If and when people do seek out such potentially life-saving supports, we must ensure they are there and that Government policy and Government funding ensure they are readily available.

Deputy Marian Harkin

On behalf of the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health, who regrets not being able to be in the Chamber this evening, I thank the Deputy for raising this important matter. I will pass on his comments to the Minister of State. I fully accept that he comes from a place of care. That is very clear from what he said, especially when he powerfully articulated the specific issues relating to men who take their own lives.

Each death by suicide is a profound tragedy that has a devastating impact on individuals, families and communities. It represents the heartbreaking loss of a life but also the loss of that person’s unique potential, dreams and what their life could have been. The ripple effects are deeply felt by families, friends and entire communities, leaving lasting pain and grief. One death by suicide is one too many and, as the Deputy said, it is a reminder of the urgent need for compassion, connection and support.

This is why suicide and self-harm reduction are a priority for the Minister of State, Deputy Butler, and the Government as a whole. The Minister of State recently brought a memo to the Cabinet to update the Government on our work to improve suicide prevention in Ireland in terms of access to services but also work on our new suicide reduction policy. She updated Government colleagues on the fact that suicide rates are declining in Ireland and that between 2000 and 2021, the last year for which we have official figures, the rate declined by over 25%. Preliminary figures record 302 deaths by suicide in 2023, the lowest preliminary figure in over 20 years, but, as the Deputy said, one death by suicide is one too many. We also need to be aware that there is sometimes a significant time lag in reporting on deaths by suicide. Numbers can be revised upwards, so I would not like to give a false impression of what the numbers are.

There is progress, but the Government and the Minister of State recognise we have so much more to do. Work to enhance services nationwide has taken place through Connecting for Life, our national suicide reduction strategy, and there have been sustained increases in investments in services. The Minister of State funds the National Office for Suicide Prevention, the budget of which has tripled from €5 million in 2012 to almost €15 million in 2025.

Across Ireland, a wide range of HSE-funded organisations are working to support people to overcome suicidal crises. The Minister of State recently increased funding for suicide crisis counselling through Pieta House to the national suicide bereavement liaison service, to the "text about it" service, which acts as a safety net for young people, and to the national Traveller counselling service.

There are dedicated resource officers for suicide prevention in each of the health regions promoting and co-ordinating suicide prevention initiatives in their local areas. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, is working with the Department of Health and the HSE to expand alternative care pathways and therapeutic environments for people presenting to emergency departments in mental health crisis because she believes emergency departments are not an appropriate environment for people in a mental health crisis. She is working to prioritise securing additional funding to continue their expansion.

These alternatives are helping to shift supports for those in crisis into their communities. This is primarily through the roll out of a network of crisis resolution teams. I will expand on that in a moment.

Deputy Aidan Farrelly

I want to reiterate my thanks to the Minister of State for taking this tonight. I really do appreciate it and I ask that she pass on my thanks to the Minister of State for such a considered reply. I do not doubt for a second the sincerity with which the Ministers of State are approaching this at all. I hope she can hear that I am not here to critique Government policy on this issue whatever but rather to take the opportunity to highlight it specifically when it comes to men and young men in Ireland.

I completely accept the point with regard to emergency care and it often being an unsuitable place. I just want to make the point that it is if-and-when they present because it is often the case that men do not present for help. I hope the new reduction policy that will come before us really acknowledges meaningfully the stigma and the taboo that survives in Irish society when it comes to us speaking openly about our mental health and showing the opposite of toughness and about being willing and ready to embrace the idea of being supported and vulnerable.

In the 30 seconds I have left, while we have already acknowledged the fantastic work of the HSE, I want to acknowledge the many services in our society that might not intend to do such good. I think of the likes of the men’s sheds network, youth services and youth clubs which provide recreation and a safe space to talk and listen in a very informal way but which do unquantifiable good for our society when it comes to men’s mental health specifically.

I thank the Minister of State again for her time and for the opportunity to raise this again tonight.

Deputy Marian Harkin

I really appreciate the Deputy’s considered and genuine comments on this. I mentioned the network of crisis resolution teams. These are teams of mental health professionals who work out of hours to meet people in mental health crisis and provide rapid assessment and intensive intervention in the community in calm environments known as solace cafés.

Connecting for Life, our national suicide reduction strategy, came to an end at the end of 2024. Work on Ireland’s new suicide reduction policy is being swiftly progressed by the Department and an extensive public consultation was recently completed.

I have heard what the Deputy said. The Minister of State, Deputy Butler, has said that making sure our policies are informed by lived and living experience is really important. The consultation I spoke about had a huge response, almost 1,900, to an online survey and hundreds of people went online and had in-person consultations to share their stories. I hear very clearly what the Deputy says when he speaks of the risks especially for young men.

In that context, it is not quite the same but related, the Minister of State will also visit Exchange House, the Irish National Traveller Service, tomorrow morning to listen to the experiences of young Travellers in relation to mental health and suicide. Earlier I mentioned that I visited Tipperary ETB yesterday. When I was leaving, I was given three books. All three were written by Travellers in one way or another. One in particular was about the experience of young Traveller men and suicide. It was a book of poetry and I read it on my way back. It was one of the most powerful things I have read in a long time because it talked about the raw pain and the shocking impact of suicide in all communities but in this case especially in the Traveller community. She was especially referring to young men.

Cuireadh an Dáil ar athló ar 10.55 p.m. go dtí 9 a.m., Dé Céadaoin, an 2 Iúil 2025.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.55 p.m. until 9 a.m. on Wednesday, 2 July 2025.

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht - Tuesday, 1 Jul 2025