Léim ar aghaidh chuig an bpríomhábhar
Gnáthamharc

Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Thursday, 19 Feb 2026

Vol. 1081 No. 4

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

School Admissions

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this topic for debate and the Minister of State for being here. There should be no need to bring this issue, which is the annual crisis of school place shortages in Dunshaughlin, County Meath, before this House. I thank the parents who contacted me and my colleague Councillor Fionnan Blake. I also thank Councillor Blake for his hard work on this issue. The parents' stories are the reason I am standing here. They are the reason this debate is happening. No parent should have to spend their evenings worrying about whether their child will have a place to go to school in their local community. They should not have to talk to local and national media or have their case pleaded on the floor of the Dáil for what a basic, fundamental and constitutional right.

The families of Dunshaughlin have run out of patience with last-minute crisis management. They need action and they need it now. This time last year we were in a similar position with scores of children on waiting lists and without an offer of a school place. This year is worse and significantly worse.

Last year, additional capacity was provided after much consternation, effort and energy and it was very welcome for the families it helped, but here we are again, and it is even worse. If no additional capacity is added beyond what is currently planned, we will have children without school places come September. One local school, St. Seachnall's National School, has already been unable to accommodate more than 80 children.

Dunshaughlin has experienced significant population growth, which is to be welcomed. It is a vibrant and thriving community, but the Department of Education and Youth has failed year after year to plan for this growth. People are astounded by this. We are sending our kids to school to learn their ABCs, but surely this is the ABC of government, management, planning and of delivery. These children did not fall from the sky. Houses were built and the community is expanding. The need for local services is apparent. They are literally in county development plans, which have set it forward, but the services are not there. Successive Ministers have been aware of the demographic pressures, but, again, we are facing a situation where families are in limbo, waiting to see if their child has a school place to go to in a few short months. It is not good enough. Every child has a constitutional to a primary school place. It is not a privilege. It is a right and it is a fundamental duty of the Minister to ensure that right is upheld.

I am asking for three specific things. The first is a commitment from the Minister of State for extra mainstream school places for Dunshaughlin for this coming September. I do not want a promise to look into it or a letter saying that it is something that will be reviewed or considered. We need a guarantee. These children are there and the demand is apparent. We need additional school places for the baby infant intake in Dunshaughlin.

Second, the Minister and the Department must engage directly and immediately with local schools. These schools and their principals are doing tremendous work, but the Department needs to work with them urgently to arrange the delivery of extra places whether that means additional teachers, resources or temporary accommodation.

Third, we cannot keep doing this every year. We need a plan for mainstream and special class provision for this growing community. We cannot be doing this every year.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. I will set out the position on behalf of Minister, Deputy Naughton, regarding the shortage of mainstream school places in Dunshaughlin, County Meath. The provision of school places to meet the needs of children and young people at primary and post-primary level, including children and young people with special educational needs, is a priority for me, the Minister and the Department.

Preschool and primary school enrolments at a national level have been in decline for some years, which, in turn, is leading to a reduction in demand for primary school places in rural areas and many urban areas across the country. The downward demographic trend is now apparent for the first time at post-primary level.

While the Department is aware of the enrolment pressures and demand for additional school places in areas like Dunshaughlin, it is important to note that enrolment pressures can be driven by a number of issues, including applications from outside the area and schools of choice. Notwithstanding the above, in some areas, demographic pressures and other factors are driving the requirement for additional school places. The Department's main responsibility is to ensure that schools in an area can, between them, cater for all pupils seeking school places in the area. In addition to school admissions, it is the responsibility of the managerial authorities of all schools to implement an enrolment policy in accordance with the Education Act 1998.

The educational welfare services of the Child and Family Agency, Tusla, is the statutory agency that can assist parents who are experiencing difficulty in securing a school place for their child. The local service is delivered through the national network of educational welfare officers. The provision of additional school places can be required in a very small number of areas. This can be facilitated by a range of strategies, some of which may involve additional accommodation but also by optimising the existing spaces.

Between 2020 and 2025, the Department has provided over €459 million in capital funding for Meath schools. Over this period, a total of 62 schools have been upgraded either through provision of a new school building, a large-scale extension or provision of modular accommodation. There are currently 14 school projects in County Meath under construction. Another six school projects will go to tender or construction in 2026 and 2027, and this summer, ten schools are approved to undergo works as part of the summer works scheme and the climate action scheme. In addition, since 2020, a total of 119 special classes have been opened in the county, 12 of which were sanctioned for September 2026.

With regards to the Deputy's concerns in relation to Dunshaughlin, a number of active projects at primary and post-primary level are in progress that will increase capacity. These include a new school building in Dunshaughlin, which will provide post-primary accommodation for 1,000 students and six special education classrooms. This project is at stage 4. In addition, there is a new school building project in progress for Dunshaughlin Community National School, which will provide eight mainstream classrooms and two special education classrooms. This project is also at stage 4. Furthermore, a total capital ceiling of €7.55 billion for 2026 to 2030 was allocated to the Department under the national development plan. This is a very significant investment in our education and youth sectors and will help deliver on our commitment to have a world-class education system that supports every learner to reach their full potential.

Our sectoral investment plan published last month sets out the Department's approach to prioritised investment in school infrastructure to ensure that every child has a school place and to support the overall operation of the school system and youth sector in terms of capital infrastructure. There is a strong focus in our plan on maximising existing capacity and prioritising project rollout to meet the most urgent needs, particularly in regard to special education and also areas experiencing huge growth in their student population.

The Minister of State has spoken for over four minutes and not a single word is of any benefit to community in Dunshaughlin and parents who are without school places for this September. He talked about future plans and investment. What solution is going to be put in place for these students? There could be in the region of 80 or more, hopefully slightly fewer, who do not have school places for this September. I am seeking a response to that, not what is going to happen in the future.

Investment in the community national school is very welcome but the minute it is built it will be too small. We waited long enough for it. I welcome the diggers on the ground but the minute it is built, it will be too small.

I have specific asks. I ask the Minister of State to recognise there is a shortage of school places for this September, in significant numbers. That is without a doubt and the offers have gone out and the responses are coming back in. He will have a very clear picture of that if he makes contact with the schools in Dunshaughlin. He should identify where additional capacity is going to be delivered. In the first instance, commit to additional capacity for the town. It is needed, without a doubt. I ask the Minister of State to commit to it for this September, identify where he is going to deliver it and provide assurances to parents, in the quickest possible timeframe, that capacity will be there, the children will receive an offer and they will have a place in their local school. I have far too many cases I can talk to him about but he will be very well aware that there are no crèche places. There is no early childhood care and education programme. There is no after-school provision. Parents are faced with the challenge of not having a place for their child in their local area. It turns their lives upside down and lifts their children away from their local communities. It is deeply unfair. I ask the Minister of State to please address those facts. What is the solution for these families for September?

I take the seriousness of the point the Deputy is making in relation to Dunshaughlin. He has outlined the challenges in an area with a growing population of students and young people. I will take the point the Deputy made on the national school that when that is completed, the project will need to move on. I know other parts of the country as well where there are significant challenges in meeting second level education demand in particular but also in the primary sector.

I will go back and engage fully with the Department to ensure we do understand and there is a roadmap to try and facilitate every student. In regard to the number of places in mainstream schools, it is important that we have certainty on that. This month, there will be enrolment letters going out and whether they are accepted or not, that will add further pressure.

I will take the point the Deputy has made and I will certainly report back to him with a further response.

Special Educational Needs

A considerable number of Members are here to deal with issues that relate specifically to education. As Deputy O'Rourke said, unfortunately we keep having to bring up these issues about finding appropriate places for children, be that in mainstream or in special classes and schools. We really need to not be trying to deal with issues like this on the floor of the Dáil but sometimes we have no choice in the matter.

This week, people were particularly exasperated about the reality of cuts to special needs assistant, SNA, numbers. We all know the huge work that is done by SNAs. I know even on a personal basis that my son Turlough would not be able to operate if it was not for the SNAs he has had in both primary and secondary school. It is more than a pause we need; we need a rethink on the criteria. That should be a demand from everybody on this floor not only in opposition but even in government. While we welcome the pause, we need to see real movement.

When we are talking about appropriate accommodation and spaces, it is a question of where to start. I am going to deal with a number of schools. I will deal with St. Mochta's NS in Louth village. The Cathaoirleach Gníomhach also received correspondence on this. Unfortunately, I have had significant correspondence over and back with the Department. It finished with: "Your email states that you endeavour to "ensure that schools infrastructure planning is keeping pace with demographic changes at a local level, where the picture can quickly evolve due to new large scale residential development." The school said that its situation has "evolved very quickly due to a new large scale residential development" but this was flagged last year and the enrolment has increased by 40 children in the past year due to construction in the area. A new development of 58 houses is nearing completion in Louth village but, again, the correspondence from the school states:

It is highly likely that we will once again reach developing school status, leaving us then with 3 extra classes and teachers, with no accommodation for them.

• Our SET teachers currently work in corridors, cupboards and staff room (which in no way is fit for purpose).

• Our school building, originally built for 5 classes, is expected to house currently 8 classes, and come September it will most likely be 9 classes.

That is before I go near what the parents are sending in. The Minister of State can imagine that because I read some of it into the record previously.

I spoke to the Minister of State previously about additional autism classes for Shelagh National School. He came back to say there was interaction with the school, but I am sorry to say that we have not seen any real movement. The school principal is not happy in any way, shape or form, nor are a considerable number of parents who have contacted me.

It is not the first time that other elected representatives and I have brought up the issue of Monksland National School. Again, plans went in for a permanent extension in 2023 comprising two autism classrooms, one support room, one common area, a kitchen, a living skills room, toilets, a storeroom and an office. It was provided with two modular units, which are being used to their full capacity. We are dealing with teachers and SNAs who are having their lunch either in storage units or their cars. That just tells us what is happening. The school is making the most use of what it has, but it is not enough. I visited the school. We need to see action in this regard. The over and back from the Department is disgraceful.

The four issues brought to my attention prior to coming to the House concern St. Mochta’s, Monksland and Shelagh national schools and car parking issues at the new build for Ardee Educate Together primary school. The Deputy raised other issues that I might come back to in my closing remarks.

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter. The Department of education has invested a serious amount of money in the sectoral investment plan for the period 2026 to 2030, which involves a strong emphasis on maximising existing capacity and prioritisation of school building projects to meet the most urgent needs. From the total of €7.55 billion being invested via this plan, it is envisaged that approximately €5 billion will be used for project roll-out to support the delivery and modernisation of school buildings across the large-scale, additional accommodation, modular and annual September accommodation needs programmes. Over the course of this year and next, there will be construction work on some 10% of the school estate. These projects will, when completed, provide 57,000 additional and modernised school places. with a strong special educational needs focus in all projects.

The first school referred to is a co-educational Catholic primary school under the patronage of the Archbishop of Armagh. It has an enrolment in the current academic year of 182 pupils, including two special education classes. The school submitted an application under the additional school accommodation scheme in 2025. The application is under assessment, and officials are in ongoing contact with this school.

The second school is a co-educational Catholic school under the patronage of the Archbishop of Armagh. It has an enrolment this year of 139 pupils, including two special classes. The school applied for additional accommodation in 2022, and on foot of that application had modular accommodation comprising two special education classrooms and one special education tuition room delivered in May 2023.

The third school is a co-educational primary school under the patronage of the Archbishop of Armagh. It has an enrolment of 82, including pupils in its special education class, which was established at this school in September 2024. In October 2025, the school submitted an application for additional accommodation for two mainstream classrooms, and the application is currently being assessed by officials in the Department.

I can confirm that the fourth school has a major project for a new school building that was devolved for delivery to Louth County Council. It is currently at stage 4, construction, of the architectural design process. The Department is engaging with the local authority regarding a proposal on the provision of additional car parking spaces. Louth County Council has been and will continue to engage with the school authorities regarding this project.

At a national level, primary enrolments are projected to decline by almost 100,000 over a ten-year period. Given the general downward direction of overall enrolments in the area, the Department's focus for the assessment of such additional accommodation applications will be to analyse the extent to which enrolments at the school and neighbouring schools are serving the local area in the first instance.

We are looking carefully at all applications to ensure we maximise what we have in terms of additional accommodation for the four schools raised by the Deputy. Some of the schools are at the very start of the application process. I assure him that the Department is working through the applications and will be in contact with the school authorities shortly with further information.

With regard to Ardee Educate Together, I met the design team and Louth County Council alongside the principal. In fairness, we were told there is a proposal. I accept that it is late in the game. The building project is fabulous, as I know, having visited the site. We really need to get this issue sorted or it will be chaos on the morning of the opening of the school. There are a number of autism classes. We need to ensure that the children can arrive without a level of chaos. I ask the Minister of State to follow up so we can ensure that the communication on how those proposals are going happens straightaway.

It frightens me when I hear the term “under assessment”. I accept the Minister of State's point that some of these are technically new applications. However, some of that is after a considerable number of years of over and back between principals and the Department. The Minister of State can see the pile of papers in front of me. It is correspondence between the Department and these schools. There is absolute frustration among the schools. The communication from Monksland National School to the Department reads, "Do you think it is appropriate that staff do not have a staff room to have their break and lunch?" That is the reality at the minute. Talk of assessments and demographics is not going to help that.

It continues:

Do you think it is appropriate that pupils cannot access physical education and that their engagement with it is entirely weather dependent? Do you think it is fair and dignified that pupils are taught in corridors because we do not have enough special education teaching rooms to house our SET teachers?

A communication from the school in Louth village states that its special education teachers are teaching in a cupboard, the staff room and the corridor due to lack of space. As the school hall is out of bounds, children with additional needs are missing out on vital movement and regulation breaks.

We cannot be constantly dealing with these issues. We need to find a better way. I ask that there is better communication, and also that I be made aware of that communication. In the nicest way I can put it, the communication the schools have had has been subpar.

I take the point. There is ongoing engagement. On the Educate Together-----

They are not happy.

That project has been completed. As for the other two projects, one is moving through. Both of the applications were made in the autumn of last year. I will ask the Department to ensure there is a timely discussion with them.

The Deputy made a point regarding school accommodation and children being located in buildings that are not fit for purpose. Children are in primary school for eight crucial years of their lives. We have to ensure that we have the best possible services available for them. The Deputy referred to movement breaks and so on. All of that is hugely important, as we all understand. I can assure the Deputy that the applications are being assessed. We are duty-bound to ensure that we are assessing them. We have to assess them to make sure we are doing the right thing.

Some €7.55 billion will be put into the education system over the next number of years, and a huge amount of money has been spent on it in the past five years. That has brought the education stock up right across the country. We will continue to invest in education.

Special Educational Needs

The very angry and shocked protests of my former primary school helped to highlight the severity of the impact of the SNA cuts that the Government was planning.

The Minister of State may have seen the protest by Johnstown National School on Tuesday evening on RTÉ. Of course, it was just one of many schools that experienced these attacks. Fair play to the teachers, SNAs, and parents who came out and protested. In that school alone, the number of SNAs was going to drop from nine to fewer than four. I met with all of the teachers, parents, SNAs and the principal of my former school this week. They were absolutely gutted and shocked. They could not believe that this would be even considered. They want to know what will happen now. Pauses are all very well, but these people are now in limbo, waiting to know whether the Government is going to abandon these cuts, which would be very severe, damaging and detrimental to the welfare of children with special needs, other children in their classes, SNAs and teachers. They all want to know that the Government is going to abandon these cuts.

I welcome the pause, but, obviously, a pause is not a permanent solution. It is not a binding decision and everybody in this House is going to be watching with interest what happens over the next few weeks.

We in Fianna Fáil have always prided ourselves on being the party of education. The number of SNAs in the country has increased by 45% since I became a TD. That is a good story but in the past week we have somehow upscuttled a lot of that progress and good work. I join Deputy Boyd Barrett in calling for a cessation of any cuts in this academic year. One thing I learned as a teacher was that SENOs always did reviews, and they were always ongoing. They were annual in nature, so nobody faced a cliff edge in terms of cuts to services. We have to go back to a scenario where the reviews are ongoing. Diagnosis takes place at various times throughout the year. The needs of a school change over the course of a year and we need to have built-in headroom in terms of the allocation of resources going forward.

This is the second time today that I have spoken about SNA reviews. I raised the matter earlier with the Tánaiste on Leaders' Questions. The Minister of State knows that this is the most pressing issue right now. It is going to affect so many students across the country. I have lost count of the number of schools that have contacted me. Later, I will be meeting online with parents, students, principals, SNAs and members of trade unions in relation to what this SNA cut involves and what the pause actually means. We do not know what the pause means. Leaving people in some sort of limbo is not acceptable because it allows a dark cloud to remain over schools. Those who have received letters saying that they are going to get increases do not know whether they will go ahead and those who received letters saying they were going to lose SNAs do not know if they will actually lose them. The Minister of State is the line Minister, but there is also a senior Minister who has a budget for this. Is the senior Minister pulling her weight in respect of this issue?

The protest organised by parents for next Wednesday at 5 p.m. outside the Dáil is going ahead because they do not just want a pause; they want the cuts to stop. They want proper support for their kids. The other point I want to make is that this matter is being treated as if the cuts have come out of nowhere. The Government is shocked to hear that all of these SNAs are being cut, but this is the outworking of the policy. Ms Ciara Reilly has written really excellent pieces on her Substack outlining that effectively since 2024 the policy has been to move away from a model where the SNA's job is to facilitate children being included in education towards more of a healthcare assistance model. As a result, entitlement is being based pretty much only on significant primary needs or, basically, medical needs. All of the other stuff, like being unable to cope in a classroom, being autistic or being overwhelmed in a classroom, is not being counted. The fundamental issue here is the policy. The cuts need to be reversed but the policy also needs to be reversed.

A script will be handed around, but I will deal with the issue without the script. I thank all Members for their engagement and the seriousness with which they are treating this issue. I take on board all of the matters that have been raised.

I will talk about the policy first. Since the 2014 document, more than 12,000 extra SNAs have been recruited and are working in the system. We have expanded considerably. There is a view going around that we have gone back to the 2014 document and that this is where the cuts are coming from. However, the SNA workforce has expanded considerably over the period since 2014.

I take the concerns of parents, schools and children on board. I understand full well the importance of SNAs. In every school community that I go into, I have said that we have built special education on the backs of SNAs. I acknowledge the enormous work they do. We have increased the SNA population by 45%, to 25,000, in recent years. The SNA workforce is hugely valued.

I am constantly asked this week, "What is the pause?". The pause means that we have stopped in relation to the decisions that were taken and communicated to schools last week. To be fair to everybody, we have stopped all of it. In May or June, information on the allocation of SNAs would normally go out to schools. We brought that back this year because I firmly believe that we need to have earlier communication. We brought back the notification for families with additional educational needs to October. I firmly believe that we need to bring communication back to earlier in the school cycle. We want to communicate earlier, but we are pausing what was being done because we are looking at the totality of the issue of special education assistance.

To speak to the Deputy's point, we do not want the schools to be in limbo. We want to make sure that they have certainty as soon as possible. We have had a number of intensive engagements over the past 24 to 48 hours in relation to this issue. We will continue to engage over the coming days. We will be bringing clarity as early as possible as to the steps forward. I take on board what the Deputies said.

Deputy Boyd Barrett mentioned Johnstown and the cliff edge of the five SNAs being taken out of it. We cannot have that. We have to have a continuous enrolment and we have to ensure that the value that we have in the SNAs is following the children. We must ensure that the children with the greatest need and those who require the help have the SNAs. If they have the SNAs, it will allow them to flourish and grow within their school communities and to have better outcomes in life as well. Many people would not be able to attend school unless they had the SNAs.

We need everybody on board. We need the Department, the school communities, parents, and unions on board and we need to have a system that everybody has faith in. One of the challenges that we are now tackling is the reviews. We should have been doing reviews every second year or every year so that schools would understand the role of the NCSE, there would be interaction with the school communities and families so that they would have better information. We have to make sure that we have confidence in what we are doing. Families and school principals have contacted me, and I have spoken to many of them in the past week in particular. I assure them that we will do the right thing by them and particularly by the children who need the support in schools.

It is really not clear, but it seems as if the SNAs and, therefore, the children for whom they provide support and, consequently, all of the other children in their classes and all of the teachers, are still in the crosshairs. All we have is a pause because people expressed such outrage, anger and shock. I should mention another school in my area. All Saints, a small school in Blackrock, has lost its only SNA. There will be no SNA there at all now. That is absolutely unacceptable. The care needs of the children have not changed. They need the same support they had previously and we need that commitment from the Government.

I will leave the Minister of State with three points because I know he will be engaging with the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and his senior Minister in the next few days. First, the cliff edge that I have spoken to him about regularly cannot be the reality.

The review I spoke to him about which happened every year needs to be consistent so we do not face this cliff edge in the future. At this point, the loss of any SNA is not tenable given the climate and context of what has happened and the lack of trust and the anxiety created. There were always minor movements in the number of SNAs over the years but given the gravity of what has happened and the scale of some of the drops, it is not tenable. I spoke privately to the Minister of State about the lack of a requirement of a diagnosis. That will create problems down the line. We need something clinical and that can generate statistics in order that people can be guided in making these decisions, particularly the SENOs.

I concur with all of my colleagues who have spoken. I presume the engagements involve the Minister of State, the Taoiseach, the Tánaiste and the Minister for education. If there is somebody else involved, I would appreciate if we were informed of that. In that meeting tonight, can I inform parents, SNAs, teachers and students that for now, this pause will be lifted in the coming weeks? Can I also confirm that the schools that received sanction of new SNAs will get those SNAs?

It is a funny sort of pause because the cuts were not going to come into place until September anyway. The Minister of State said it is a review of suspending it but it is not like there were going to be cuts and now they are paused. Some of these schools may still face the same cuts come September. The Minister of State is not giving any guarantee that will not happen. Can the schools that went through the wringer in this very difficult environment and were granted an extra SNA now plan on the basis that they will get an extra SNAs or two or whatever or can they not be guaranteed that at this stage? In the pause and the review of the process, is the fundamental toolkit, the basis on which the allocations will be made, being looked at or is it just the individual schools?

The basis on which we are delivering special needs assistants is under the 2014 circular, which has allowed us to grow the SNA workforce by nearly 60%. It is a whole-of-government approach. It is a very serious issue for families and school communities. We are all engaged. The Minister, Deputy Naughton, and I have had multiple conversations and meetings over the past number of days and weeks, right over the weekend. We are engaging extremely carefully as to how we will proceed. We had a number of meetings this morning as well.

The Deputy asked me to clarify a few points in relation to his meeting tonight. If a school has gone through an SNA assessment or gone through with the SENOs and it was clearly demonstrated that additional care was needed in that school, that has to be stood over. If the school demonstrates additional care is needed, we are about ensuring the SNAs are working towards that care that is needed. There was never any discussion that a school would lose its SNA immediately; it was always going to happen from 1 September, not now or at Easter or whatever. It was always within the school year 2026. That was very clear at all times. We are pausing it because there has been so much concern about the process. We have to be extremely confident in the process we put in place such that all school communities and education partners have confidence in it and that we can go forward with confidence in it. There was mention of the removal of diagnosis. We cannot remove that unless we have a robust process in place in which all education partners are confident. We are working on that currently. It will take some time to make sure we have a robust system in place. This is a significant policy change. We have to make sure we get it right. I assure the House and all Members that we are working extremely carefully with the National Council for Special Education, us as elected members and Department officials. We have seen a number of attacks of various different types over the past couple of days. I assure the Deputies that when we have this done, we will have it right. We take everything seriously. We understand the special needs assistants, the children, the families and schools.

Social Welfare Benefits

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this issue because it undoubtedly affects people in Dunleer, Togher, Drogheda and Dundalk and no doubt it also affects people the breadth of Ireland. I came in to the Chamber in October 2025 to talk about a constituency who had come to me having lost her husband a year prior. She was facing having to rear her four children, get back to work, get on with her life and with building a life for her children, only to find herself in a position in which she fell ill. It was cancer and she had to seek treatment. If things were not bad enough, because she was receiving the widow's benefit, she was therefore not entitled to illness benefit. At the time, I said this was clearly wrong. Our system cannot be devised to punish somebody when they are trying to do everything right. This lady was afflicted by a terrible tragedy in her family and was trying to put her best foot forward and build a life for her children but at the same time had to bear her own illness. It was not just that but also the economic devastation this was going to have on her family. A year and half prior to that, she had two incomes coming into the household. A year and a half later, she was not only down the income from her husband, she was also going to be down the income from her husband which was substituted by a widow's benefit and because her employer did not make up her sick pay, she was not even entitled to that illness benefit. This is despite the fact that from the day she left school she paid her PRSI and made her contributions. It is grossly unfair. At the time, I was told the Minister would take a look at reviewing this process. My understanding is no review has taken place to date and there is no date to have a review of such practices. I understand the system of one payment, one person but if this was only for widow's benefit one would say it is grossly unfair and surely it could be reviewed. However, this also happens when somebody receives the carer's allowance. These are people who take care of others day in, day out. They receive quite a nominal amount of money yet if they fall ill, they are not entitled to illness benefit. No doubt the Minister of State will tell me in some cases they can be given half of a second payment but that is not enough to pay the bills. That is not enough in this day and age to carry on day by day. When people are hit by very harsh and difficult circumstances, which I hope are temporary, we should not be there to punish them or make their lives and circumstances even harder. We should lift them up and help them along, especially in these moments of crisis. I call for this situation to be reviewed swiftly.

I thank the Deputy for the question and will speak a little on the information I received from the Department.

In relation to widows, widowers and the surviving pension, we have done some work on expanding the scheme for civil partners or cohabiting partners over the past while as well. The challenge is when somebody is widowed, a man or woman, they work and then get ill themselves, going from two incomes to one.

Ordinarily, if they got sick, they would be entitled to illness benefit, with the PRSI paid. This issue has come across most public representatives' desks. We meet families who are doing the right thing and making sure their contributions are up to date. Often, the families have been doubly hit. A partner may have passed away, the person is on the widow's or widower's pension and maybe raising a family on their own and working outside the home, and then illness strikes. When we look for help for them, we find we are unable to get anything for them. That is very challenging.

A number of cases have been raised in the House, in particular, over the past 12 months. The Deputy raised one case very eloquently last October or November when a commitment was given to look into the matter to see what could be done. If we look at this in its totality, where a widow or widower is getting the pension because their partner has passed away, the pension is based on the PRSI the partner paid. The surviving partner has contributed their own PRSI and is looking for illness benefit at a particular time. The PRSI contribution system should be able to cope with contributions from both partners. A number of senior Government spokespersons gave an undertaking to look at it. We need to be more proactive in relation to seeing if we can do something for families, even in the short term. I can think of half a dozen of cases where I assisted but was unable to progress the application.

I will take the Deputy's concerns back. A commitment was given to look at this last autumn. I will ask that it be looked at again and I will relay the seriousness of the matter as well. The Social Insurance Fund is made up, the first instance, by PRSI contributions. We could make the argument that PRSI has been paid by the partner to generate the contributory widow's or widower's pension and PRSI has been paid by the surviving partner. I will ask the Department to have a look at this in more detail.

I thank the Minister of State. I am heartened that he has grasped the seriousness of the situation and by the fact that he is going to raise the urgent need for this to be reviewed. Let us review it and implement it. Let us find a timeline of many months but, rather, weeks or a few months. The Minister of State has grasped the seriousness of the situation, as has the Minister, Deputy Calleary. It is grossly unfair and does not just affect people who are getting the widow's or widower's benefit. It is also arises in the event that somebody is receiving carer's allowance. It is the system itself. We have to grasp this. As the Minister of State said, one partner has paid PRSI and the other person is getting the benefit of that. The second person has paid their own PRSI but cannot get the full benefit of that. There is something wrong with that system. We encourage people to contribute, find their own feet and get on with life. Surely, when they stumble in life, we can help pick them up and help them along the way.

The Deputy mentioned the carer's allowance. The half-rate carer's allowance was brought in. Former Deputy Joe Callanan from east Galway and I put a motion before the Fianna Fáil Parliamentary Party many years ago regarding the half-rate carer's allowance. We had been banging our heads off a stone wall for some time but Séamus Brennan, the then Minister, accepted our bona fides, particularly as regards cases where one person on a pension was caring for an adult son or daughter.

Illness benefit is paid for a short period. If it was the case that PRSI could be paid and that could generate a payment, it could not be done for the long term but maybe it could be done for the short term. I will take the issue back. I understand it. I have seen it with families and individuals who come in to me, particularly families who have had difficulties already because one of the parents has died. The surviving partner may be rearing a family or looking after a loved one at their most vulnerable time.

The Deputy mentioned illness benefit. Illness benefit is only paid for a short period. That may be something we can look at. I will certainly raise the issue with the Minister, Deputy Calleary, and the Department to see if we can come up with any proposals.

Disability Services

This Topical Issue is to discuss supports available to vulnerable children and adults in County Wexford who suffer from a disability. Families with children and adults with disabilities are in crisis in terms of the supports and carers that are made available to them. I was contacted by a distressed and exhausted mother who has three children with serious disabilities. She is literally at her wits' end. She has a 25-year-old, a 22-year-old and a 17-year-old. They all have very complex medical needs, including intellectual and physical disabilities.

A home nursing package was sanctioned by the HSE many years ago. First, it was through the Nurse on Call agency. It was then transferred to another agency, which I will not name. The woman in question said she has had the pleasure of meeting and working with many exceptional nurses. However, in recent times, the quality of nursing has drastically deteriorated overall. She puts this down to a number of factors, including nurses being put in positions outside their level of expertise. ICU neonatal nurses, following a four-week induction, are being placed to care for her three adult children with very complex needs.

The HSE passed the buck constantly. Any time she questioned it, it said the agency managed the package. The HSE will not interact in any way, shape or form. The management and the director of nursing in the HSE will not meet to discuss the issues with the parents. Instead, parents have to speak with a liaison nurse who then refers them to management. There is no governing body over home care packages. For example, she has been asked on a few occasions by different nurses how to turn on a portable bottle of oxygen, among other basic nursing questions. None of the nurses she has been supplied with through the agency - this is not the nurse's fault but the HSE's fault in terms of governance - have ever used a hoist prior to coming to her house to, as she puts it, "allegedly" care for her children. She provides the training.

The woman has made recommendations to the agency and the HSE in relation to the training of these nurses prior to coming to work in this area in terms of induction. Of course, the HSE is washing its hands. Believe it or not, the agency is paid €18,650 per week to provide the care package. The nurses get €18.50 an hour. The private company gets €74 an hour per nurse. That is just shy of €1 million per year for providing the care. When a risk assessment was done, the recommendation that came back from the agency was that it needed more nurses on top of the €18,650 a week it was getting.

This is indicative of so many of the problems in this country arising from privatisation, particularly of care. Here we have an agency that is literally creaming off the top and making massive profits. It appears to be the only agency providing this type of care in County Wexford. It is receiving just shy of €1 million per year for one home for three children, but it is not paying the nurses a proper wage. As a result, it is getting nurses who are not suitable or qualified in this specific area. They are excellent nurses in their own right and in their own areas, but they are not suitably qualified to provide the level care. This is replicated in many other instances across Wexford, according to the information I have been given. It is something that we have to investigate given the level of public money going into these private agencies. This case is indicative. The matter has to be urgently examined.

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue. He has outlined a specific issue on the floor of the Dáil. I do not have the exact details of the case, but I will speak to it.

If the Deputy could furnish the details afterwards, I will certainly do what I can to help. The woman the Deputy spoke about is doing extraordinary work. She has a 22-year-old, a 25-year-old and a 17-year-old. Looking at the sums the Deputy quoted, we seriously have to ask ourselves whether we are getting value for money. More importantly, are we getting the care for people that the State is paying for? That is the most important question here.

In my time as Chair of the disability committee in the last Dáil, I met many families and saw the challenges they face on an ongoing basis. Since my appointment to my current role, I have sat on the Cabinet subcommittee on disability and we have had many discussions on funding mechanisms, the challenges that are there and the amount of money we are paying to private agencies to provide public care. The real challenge is determining whether we are getting the care required. We can talk about value for money after that but the most important thing is the care that is required.

I hear the Deputy's frustration in speaking about that mother, the hoist, the oxygen and the other challenges. He has described young adults who have a multiplicity of very complex needs. What that mother is doing is a vocation for her. I do not have the full details but I will certainly take the details from the Deputy if he will give me them. We have a shortage of respite and residential spaces across the country. We are spending a huge amount of money. Again this year, the amount of money being spent on the disability sector has gone up by a huge amount to try to make sure we are doing the right thing by people with disabilities. There is serious engagement at Government level on the matter. However, we also have to be mindful of the existing system we have built up. Is that right for families? We must stand back and ask what we can get for €1 million. The figure the Deputy mentioned is extraordinary.

Deputy Lawlor has outlined that woman's serious concerns about the level or quality of care. I will personally take up the matter. I will engage with both the HSE and the Minister on the Deputy's behalf. I ask him to forward me the details privately. I do not want to comment on the case publicly but I will certainly engage privately.

I have not mentioned the family or the company involved. The Minister of State is quite right in saying that this lady's care for her children is a vocation. I have worked with her over many years and her dedication and commitment to her children, who have profound and complex needs, is just remarkable. She is now exhausted and distressed. She has been fighting for a long time. If the Minister of State will believe it, she actually did some of the training for some of the nurses who came in. She showed them how to work various pieces of equipment.

Given the level of investment, this is incredibly frustrating to this family. That level of investment could be justified if they were getting the quality care that figure demands. Without meaning to put a price tag on anything, we are paying an agency whose only aim is to maximise profits, as we have seen in myriad sectors across Ireland. The moneys involved, which are almost being demanded by these agencies, are off the charts. As the Minister of State has suggested, the money being invested in the area of disability has gone up hugely but that is because we have to meet these bills. Imagine what a proper caring agency run by the State could get for that €1 million. We would be able to pay nurses and train them properly to the highest standards rather than forcing people into these positions. In many instances, we have no choice because the nurses are not there. They are not there because we are not remunerating them as we should. As I have said, €74 per hour goes to the agency while €18.50 goes to the nurse. That is criminal in the context of what the State could get back if that money went into a properly structured HSE-run agency.

The case the Deputy has outlined is extremely disturbing. At the core is the care that is being provided and the concerns of the mother, who has a vocation, about the care she is getting. That is one side of it. The other side of it is the amount of money the State is spending and that figure of €74 versus €18.50. A lot of section 38 and section 39 organisations around the country have invested and provided care for people with disabilities for many years. They have provided massive value for money. Every cent they have is invested into either community facilities or the teams that work in them. People should not be financially benefiting from the care of very vulnerable people. The funding the Deputy has outlined has come up at a number of the meetings, as have privatisation and some of the organisations that are providing care and charging the State an arm and a leg for it. These things have come up because we need to get the best value for money. However, we also need a level of faith in the system and in the care that is being provided. We need families to have faith in that system as well. I will take up this issue. I will certainly engage with the Deputy on it because it is hugely important that we follow this up for the family the Deputy has mentioned, for the State and for other people who need the same level of care and who are experiencing similar engagements with private companies. I will certainly do that.

Roinn