Address to Seanad Éireann by Members of the European Parliament

An Cathaoirleach

I welcome everybody to our engagement with our MEPs from the Dublin European constituency, including the former Leader of the House, Regina Doherty MEP. This is part of the Seanad reform we have completed over the past few years to ensure that Europe is part of the focus of what we do. The engagement with MEPs has a central role in that link between the Seanad Chamber, Senators and Members of the European Parliament from Ireland and the wider European community.

The challenges that we face in Europe and the world are enormous in everything from the wars in the Middle East and Ukraine but also the bigger problems, including climate change. I think it was a decade ago that the Pope and the Pentagon said in the same week that climate change was a bigger threat to our security as a world than terrorism. We now also have the situation of artificial intelligence where many people are afraid for their futures and their jobs but also have concerns about how artificial intelligence will challenge us as a people. Europe has to play a leading role in that and it is not an easy challenge to get them all to agree.

Ireland's Presidency of the European Union and the MEPs' engagement here today is an important part in highlighting the central role that Europe is playing but also can play. I was at an event last night where Bertie Ahern was talking about our joining the European Union and how it transformed us over 50 years ago from an agrarian economy. There were legislators and business leaders from India trying to understand how Ireland transformed and what they could learn from us about how they can improve their economy, their society and their state for their citizens. They see us as a gateway into the European Union, not only from an economic point of view but also from a political point of view.

This engagement here today is a very important part of our engagement with Europe but also the Seanad's role when it comes to scrutiny of EU directives and all issues relating to Europe. I thank the Senators who are here today, not just from the Dublin area and also from across the country. I thank Mr. Barry Andrews, MEP; Ms Regina Doherty, MEP; and Mr. Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, MEP for being here as well. We will follow the format under the Standing Orders of the Seanad. In Europe they only get one or two minutes-----

Ms Regina Doherty

If we are lucky.

An Cathaoirleach

We are going to give the MEPs six times that. They will get six minutes each and then the group spokespersons will speak for five minutes in response and Members will have an opportunity to engage with questions and answers. It is meant to be robust and engaging. I really appreciate all speakers all being here. We have not done this by drawing lots or anything like that - it is based on alphabetical order. I call firstly on Mr. Barry Andrews, MEP, to address us.

Mr. Barry Andrews

The Cathaoirleach established the context very well with the threat of AI, climate change, insecurity and war on the Continent of Europe. Lots of people have repeated this but it really does illustrate the challenge that sets the context for Ireland's Presidency. I add to that something for the overall context. Europe made a three-way bet, essentially, on American security, on Chinese supply chains and manufacturing, and on Russian fossil fuels. Each one of these bets has gone wrong, frankly, and what Europe has embarked upon now is to try to mitigate the damage that has been caused by all of the transitions that are required, whether that is by investing in security and defence at a European scale, investing in renewable energy and replacing fossil fuels, or developing European industry to compete with Chinese supply chains. That is the context in which Ireland takes up this Presidency.

It is important that we remind ourselves what those priorities are for the Irish Presidency. Security is the first one. I am happy to discuss that and take any questions on security and defence. I wrote a number of papers on Ireland's neutrality in a changing Europe. Of course, it is a difficult area for Ireland to identify as a priority, given the generational underinvestment in Irish security over the years. The second one is competitiveness. Again, it is a slight challenge for Ireland because we are an open global trading economy and the instinct at the moment is about autonomy for Europe to develop an industrial policy for Europe and that sometimes runs against our instinct for open international trade. That is a difficulty as well. Finally, the third of our priorities is in values. Values are important for Ireland. It is the rule of law in terms of how that is going to look internally but also externally.

I happen to be the chair of the development committee in the European Parliament. It is a huge honour to be a chair. We have not had a chair of a parliamentary committee in the European Parliament since the 1980s. However, unfortunately, I come to this policy area at a time when the tide is really going out on international development and on official development assistance. Most governments across the European Union are doing what the Americans have done. There is a massive retreat from development aid, from humanitarian aid and from respect for international humanitarian law. I should also mention that I am vice-chair of the delegation for relations with Palestine. Again, I know it is a subject of major interest to members of the Seanad. If there are any questions on that, I will be very happy to deal with them.

I want to make some positive comments about the European Union. We are always told about the existential threat to the EU. I have probably created some of that sense in my opening remarks. However, we have to remind ourselves that the paradox of President Trump's approach to international trade and multilateralism is that he has now made the European Union look like a reliable and trustworthy partner that is rules-based and respects partnerships. A large number of countries want to join the European Union and a large number of countries have finally signed trade agreements with the EU. For example, we completed the Mercosur trade agreement at a European level after 20 years of negotiation. We completed the India trade agreement, and it is hard to convey how big a deal that is. India is one of the most difficult trading partners to sign an agreement with. We also completed the Australian trade agreement. To underline how difficult that was, the Australian Government got a lot of criticism at home, particularly from its farming lobby, about the nature of the agreement. We have developed all of these trade agreements. There are more to come. The paradox, if I may say again, is that Donald Trump has made Europe, despite its reputation for bureaucracy and slow-moving officialdom, an attractive place for partnership. Equally, on the question of enlargement, there is a huge waiting room of countries seeking to join the EU and that is important to emphasise as well. In addition to countries in the western Balkans, Ukraine and Moldova, other countries are seeking to join the EU. That is a good sign of the health of the European Union, despite some of the negative situation about which we have heard.

The main achievement and indicator of success of the Irish Presidency will be if we can get the multi-annual financial framework, MFF, over the line. Unusually for a large institution, this is a seven-year budget. As Members and former Members of the Oireachtas, we are used to a single-year budget. That is what happens in the UK and in most countries, but the European Union has a seven-year budget. It starts in 2028. The expectation and the hope is that the Irish Presidency will be able to conclude the multi-annual financial framework discussions and negotiations by the end of the Presidency and by the end of December 2026. If we do that, reputationally this will be one of the best achievements of the Irish Presidency. It will be a very difficult thing to do but if we do it we have to remember there are four big elections happening in EU member states next year. Elections will be taking place in Poland, Italy, Spain and France, and all of them are anxious that the MFF negotiations are completed before they get into campaign mode. That is a real indication.

I will finish by saying that Ireland really punches above its weight. It is a bit of a cliché but we are at the centre of the political world at the moment. We have had the American President here on a very successful visit. We now have the EU Presidency. We have the European Political Community coming here in November. This is a sign that Ireland is playing its role in a turbulent world.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank Mr. Andrews. I now invite Ms Regina Doherty, MEP, to speak.

Ms Regina Doherty

It is a real pleasure to be back here today. I thank the Seanad for the invitation. As most Senators know, I have spent a lot of my political life in this building, whether it was in the Dáil in government or in the Seanad. For the last two years - it is hard to imagine it is two years - I have had the real honour of representing Dublin in the European Parliament.

I was struck when I was coming here by the thought that even though the world has intrinsically changed in the last couple of years, our job is still very much exactly the same. It is to try to represent, from our perspective, Dublin - my colleagues and I represent 1.5 million people - and to make sure we are talking about the things that are important to them and not lofty topics that we can sometimes get carried away on. Just like here, most of the work I am doing in the European Parliament happens in committee. The committees that I sit on are the Committee on the Internal Market and Consumer Protection, the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs, and the Committee on Employment and Social Affairs. I am the vice-chair of the Special Committee on the Housing Crisis in the European Union, which may very soon be a full committee as opposed to an emergency committee. I am also the vice-chair of the tax matters committee. I will focus on a few of the issues today that I think genuinely matter to the people we represent.

Over the last two years I have been working very hard with parents, researchers, psychologists, specialists, children and the tech companies to try to make sure we make the online world safer for our children than it has ever been. I was particularly pleased last week to see the combination of that work in the finalisation of the EU KIDS Act, although I wish to God it was called something else. For a very long time we have been trying to put pressure on parents to manage all of this themselves and it just is not fair. The proposal puts the responsibility now back, where I firmly believe it belongs, on the tech companies to make sure they are responsible for having a safe environment and one that is more appropriate from an age perspective for our children. I have got myself into trouble over this for the last while by saying a blanket ban would not work when other governments were saying they were going to do just that. However, without the changes to ensure safety by design and by default was rooted in the legislation for the tech giants, we were going to have our children, who are very intuitive, able to find back doors and side doors to get around any ban and we would not have made the place safe.

I believe that the legislation will be a game-changer. It is up to all of us to make sure that it lives up to all of our aspirations.

The second issue for the past number of years has been competitiveness, which everybody is talking about. We all know that Europe does not lack ambition. It certainly does not lack talent. However, we sometimes make things much harder for ourselves than they have to be. Our businesses have been telling us that for the past number of years. The savings and investment union, which many of us are talking about, has a real opportunity of working where the capital markets union did not. We have geopolitics to help us co-operate and work together where some of the national interests across the European Union have trumped central co-operation over the past number of years. The reality is that we need to work closer together to make sure we get proper investment for our businesses, start-ups and scale-ups, to make sure that ordinary, decent, hard-working people can get the money from Europe to invest in their businesses. We know what Irish businesses face because they tell us all the time.

Housing has been an issue that all of us have been working particularly hard on for the past 18 months. The committee was established. I thought it was very important, from my party's perspective and from our ambitions' perspective, that we got as senior a position as we could. I managed to become a vice-chair and was very blessed to be able to become a rapporteur. We worked hard for 18 months to get a body of work that had hundreds of recommendations as to what the European Union can do to try to assist member states. I know we can have the argument about whether we have competency or not. What we believe is that some of the things that are rooted in European legislation and regulations are slowing us down. Some of the financing inhibitors stop people being able to borrow money at a rate where it means that they could sell affordable houses. There is a lot we can do. I know there is lots that only national governments can do, but we can do a lot and I hope we see it shortly with the affordable housing legislation, which was launched last week. The part that I am really interested in is probably going to come after Christmas, where we will see simplification of all of those regulations and I am looking forward to that.

Then we have artificial intelligence, or as President Trump called it this morning, super intelligence. The only thing I recognise is that while we talk about a lot of the concerns that people have - they are right that we need rules and regulations and Europe has all of those rules and regulations but just does not have the companies to regulate - we also need to be talking about the phenomenal changes from a positive perspective that we can actually appreciate in life. We can have the rules, but we also need to realise the transformative way this is going to change all our lives for the positive as well as addressing the concerns we have.

Mr. Andrews spoke about the war in Ukraine and the support that continues to come from Europe for those colleagues. I will be very honest with the House. Before I ever went to the European Parliament or visited any of those eastern countries, I had a sense that they were making a big deal out of it. That is until you go to Finland, Estonia or even Poland and realise what normal people are living in fear of. They have bunkers under the ground and procedures to know how to get to them in the event of something happening. I came back and I realised this is so much more real and co-operation is desperately important. Ireland has been to the fore. The European Union has been really instrumental in helping Ukraine. That then brings us to the defence conversation. There is a different mood in Ireland now than there ever would have been when I was in this Chamber or the Dáil about having that conversation and the realism that we need to have protections, even if it is only for our infrastructure. We are never going to change our stance on being militarily unaligned. However, to be able to protect the infrastructure we so heavily rely on is something we need to be cognisant of and do far faster.

I will stop there. I am looking forward to the interaction and the questions we will have later on. It is a real privilege to be a former Member of this House and to be back today.

Mr. Aodhán Ó Riordáin

As my colleagues said, it is a genuine honour to be here to share our work in the European Parliament with Senators and to be back in the Oireachtas. I ran for the European Parliament inspired in some way because of the racist riot that took place in November 2023 on the streets of Dublin. I was extremely worried about the rise of the far right and convinced that the prioritisation of Dublin in the political sphere was not being taken seriously enough.

On my first day in the European Parliament, I told my colleagues that I had three priorities; housing, housing and housing. As Ms Doherty quite rightly said, we have a housing committee and a housing Commissioner. We now have a housing report and our first European housing legislation. I hope that in the budget negotiations that will be finalised by the end of the year, we may have some financial assistance for housing. Having 4,000 children living in my city in emergency accommodation is an outrage and there is also the fact that tourists are living in homes while children are living in hotels. That is why there was such an emphasis in the Affordable Housing Act 2021 on regulation of short-term lets.

Some of the campaigning I have done in Dublin throughout my political life I have brought to the European Parliament. I have established a new informal committee on drugs and drug use, which has tried to bring some of the mainstream European talk when it comes to decriminalisation of the drug user, and the facilitation of injecting facilities and consumption rooms, to the mainstream of Irish politics. We also had a petition which we brought to the European Parliament from parents who are waiting for assessments of needs for their children.

I am on the UK-EU delegation, which means that we have an interaction with Westminster politicians every six months or so. I am a member of the S&D, which is the second biggest group in the European Parliament. We obviously have a political relationship with the British Labour Party and on that basis, I am encouraging my British Labour Party colleagues to take Northern Ireland much more seriously. Also, all of us are working collaboratively as Irish MEPs to ensure the recognition of Irish passport holders born in the North of Ireland. They are EU citizens and they deserve to have EU representation as well.

Simplification and competitiveness have been mentioned. As somebody of the left, we understand the importance of these two words but at the same time we are nervous about rowing back on the very things that have protected consumers and workers' rights over generations. When I was a young man, I became very aware that my mother had to leave the Civil Service when she got married. It is only because of our membership of the European Union that advances in workers' rights and gender equality have improved things. However, there is a body of far-right MEPs who are determined to row back all of that. It is important for all of us in the centre ground to co-operate with each other and not to allow anti-European and extreme voices to take over.

Ukraine and Gaza have been mentioned and they are extremely important. Sometimes we forget, as Ms Doherty quite rightly said, and think that Ukraine is something that happens on television, but it is not something that happens on television for those who live in a member state that borders Russia. It is a very real threat to their way of life. They have a memory within their families of Russian aggression. That is why, for me, solidarity with Ukraine and understanding the necessity of member states to react to what is happening is important. The issue of Gaza is also forefront in our minds. It destabilises the European Union to have an association agreement with a country like Israel, which flouts international law so readily. The EU-Israel Association Agreement is worth €45 billion. It would have much more effect on changing Israel's course of action when it comes to Gaza, the West Bank or other areas where it shows aggression, if we were to genuinely threaten the suspension or the ending of that trade agreement.

Coming back to housing, there is commitment from Government. We had the Minister for housing in Strasbourg last week. There is a commitment for a meeting of the housing ministers in November, with a focus on homelessness, which I look forward to engaging with. There is a commitment for a housing summit, which Ursula von der Leyen made in her state of the union speech last year. We are still waiting for details on that. If there were to be a housing summit in Dublin - I would hope before the end of the year with the main players of the European Union - it would bring more energy to the discussion of housing our people. If there is any momentum behind anti-European sentiment and behind those who wish to break up what has been the greatest peace process in history, it is because Europe does not seem to be reacting strongly enough to the needs of people on the ground. If people cannot house themselves, their families or their children then politics feels very distant from them. I hope we get to a position to be able to deliver on that housing summit before the end of the year.

In her state of the Union address last week Ursula von der Leyen said a lot of things.

She spoke about AI, which is something we are concerned about on the employment committee in the context of labour displacement. She also spoke about housing being a right. Many people in the European Parliament believe property is a right but we are trying to move to a situation where housing is recognised as a right so we can, as I said, house our children and especially those who currently live in emergency accommodation.

An Cathaoirleach

I thank the MEPs for their opening statements on a broad range of topics. Housing was mentioned as one of those issues that has been weaponised and utilised but it is of fundamental importance to our young people, as we have seen in some reports this week. We will now hear from our group spokespersons from each of our groups, starting with an Seanadóir Fitzpatrick.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

Go raibh maith agat, a Chathaoirligh. Cuirim fáilte roimh na MEPs. They are very welcome. It is really good to see the three of them. It is disappointing the fourth representative for Dublin is not here. It is incredibly important that we have strong relations between our national Parliament and our European Parliament. I thank the MEPs for the service they give to Dublin. It is important we have really strong, constructive representation in the European Parliament.

Fianna Fáil has obviously always been a pro-EU party. We have no hesitation in saying that and we are very proud to be the party that led our country into the Union. I am somebody who grew up in the European Union. I am somebody who learnt French and German in Cabra and went on to study Italian as well. I remember going to work in Germany when I had to get a Gastarbeiter permit. I have lived the European experience and I know for my children and their generation and for future generations the European Union is incredibly important. It is incredibly important because of all of the things the MEPs have mentioned, all the great work they are undertaking, participating in and contributing to - not just for Dublin but for the 27 member states - and the strength that the EU represents on the world stage. We are a single community of 450 million people. I do not think there is a bigger single market. That brings power to address the issues the MEPs have mentioned like security, defence, stability, democracy and freedom. These are words and values that we grew up with and kind of take for granted, but we should not. We should value them and protect them and defend them to our last breaths because we are privileged people. We are incredibly privileged to live in Dublin, to live in Ireland and to be part of the EU. I really thank the MEPs for the work they are doing.

There are a couple of things they mentioned that I would like to come back to. One of them is housing. It is obviously a huge issue. There is not a European city where you do not witness people who are homeless, who are without a home. If you do not have a place to call your own, one that is safe, secure and meets your needs, it is incredibly challenging to go to school, college or work and to function in society. I therefore commend the MEPs on the work they are doing at an EU level to promote and assert the right to housing. It is essential for us humans to have secure shelter. We have had a big challenge. I am very proud that house construction in Ireland is twice the EU average. I am very proud that we have a target to deliver 300,000 homes, that we are making great progress towards achieving that many homes and that we have record levels of not just affordable and private housebuilding but social housebuilding as well. The only solution to homelessness is homes and that is what social housing really addresses. There is more opportunity. It is a national competence but Ms Doherty mentioned it, I think, when she talked about the investment in and financing of housing. We see the EU as a great source of strategic financing. In the constituency I live in, a really obvious example is the urban regeneration and education project and the funding that came in for TUD in Grangegorman. The old asylum there has been transformed into a world-class campus. It is a fantastic campus. It is not just about education or culture but about people. It is a really open place. Consider the transformation that has been achieved there. It was a walled Victorian asylum where people were locked up for lifetimes and it is now a part of the city where lives begin. It is really fantastic and Europe played a part in that via the investment bank. We have another huge regeneration opportunity in the capital in the Carlton site. The State has bought that site for MetroLink and we could deliver affordable housing there. The State owns it.

I thank the MEPs for being here and their engagement with us. I encourage them to continue doing that because it is really important. When the public see politicians working in a practical way, they value our democracy and they value us.

Senator Evanne Ní Chuilinn

I welcome the MEPs. It is great to have them here. I was going to use all my time to speak about the European Week of Sport, which begins today, I think. I had the opportunity last year to go to Brussels and speak at the European Parliament during European Week of Sport along with Nina Carberry, MEP. There was a great discussion about women in sport, inequality and all that. I will get to that because acknowledging European Week of Sport and what we can do both here and at EU level to encourage more people to get involved in physical activity is a good thing.

However, I have just come from the most infuriating media committee meeting with the social media companies. Ms Doherty mentioned online safety for children and Mr. Ó Ríordáin mentioned AI and the difficulties we are facing with AI in the employment space. I would like to reiterate what I said downstairs in the committee room, which is that artificial intelligence is very intelligent. I cannot understand how media companies cannot ban videos from being uploaded in the first place using AI. I could not get a response from TikTok an hour ago on why the company could not use this amazing tool called AI to ensure videos of dangerous driving, gender-based violence, criminal activity or any videos of that nature are not ending up on our platforms. I cannot understand how that is.

I am going to speak specifically about gender-based violence and about femicide and use some of the statistics we have for Ireland. Femicide in Ireland has increased by almost 50% this year. There have been ten instances of femicide, up from seven in 2025. Some 287 women have died violently in Ireland since 1996. In 63% of these instances they were killed in their homes and 87% of women were killed by a man known to them. We know gender-based violence does not just happen on a given day. These women are on watchlists. It is a result of behaviour that has often been festering for years. What has happened in the era of these tech companies and online social media platforms is there a place online now to cultivate, spread and encourage male supremacy and antifeminist behaviours and it is very worrying. There was a research project done recently by DCU, funded by the Department of justice. It was called "Recommending Toxicity". The authors created ten online accounts that were, mar dhea, owned by 16- and 18-year-old boys and men. No matter whether those accounts actively looked for misogynistic videos, they were fed them over and over again. Regardless of what was being sought or what was looked at in the first instance, these videos were being fed to these accounts, which were purporting to belong to teenage boys and 18-year-old men. The accounts were being run by researchers but it is very worrying.

Some 90% to 95% of deepfakes on the internet are nonconsensual pornographic images depicting women. I am aware addressing all this is not easy but there was mention of making tech companies responsible and there is a way to go there.

Addressing all of this is a priority for Fine Gael. I thank the Fine Gael Women's Network for its advocacy and submission of proposals to public representatives on how we can combat domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, particularly in an era of that online content because it is all just spreading.

There is a range of EU legislative instruments that aim to tackle these issues, including the Digital Services Act. The EU KIDS Act was mentioned as well. However, I would really like the MEPs to update the House on the work that is ongoing in the European Parliament to strengthen these legislative instruments further because from what I saw downstairs, Coimisiún na Meán is hamstrung. We are all hamstrung by certain regulatory and legal frameworks. At the moment, the likes of TikTok are getting away with uploading these videos. Sometimes they are taking them down in 24 hours, sometimes they are not, but they should not be going up in the first place. We in this House, and in the Dáil and European Parliament, have a responsibility to be more proactive about making sure those videos cannot go up in the first place.

I will come back to European Week of Sport because it begins today. It is an opportunity to promote the benefits of sport and physical activity. It is an opportunity for the EU to connect with citizens across the Union to promote a vision of sport that is inclusive of all abilities and ages. The current framework that guides EU sports policy runs to December 2027. There will be a successor. It is interesting that it is parallel with the national sports policy in Ireland. I will be doing a bit of work over the next year or so with stakeholder engagement with the sector. I would be really happy if the MEPs would be happy to take a report from the research I do here in Ireland for the next Irish sports policy because it looks like the next European sports policy will run along the same timeframe. If they are open to receiving some of that information, I would be delighted to send it on.

Senator Tom Clonan

Fáilte abhaile ar ais chuig an Teach seo. I thank our guests for their exceptional public service. That commute over and back to Strasbourg and Brussels is very hard on families and individuals and it should not be taken lightly. It is a huge sacrifice, especially at particular times in people's lives. We are exceptionally well-represented in Europe. I recall that MEP Andrews recently appeared before the Joint Committee on Defence and National Security to talk about defence, security and priorities we ought to have. Unfortunately, I was called away to the Order of Business and when I came back, I apologised to Barry for missing his contribution. He said to me, "Do not worry about that, Tom. I was kind of hoping you wouldn't come back". When it comes to verbal acuity and discourse, we are exceptionally well-represented, not just in Dublin but nationwide. I know we all have our differences, but my experience of this House has been that people are very collegial.

I will ask a few questions. In our Presidency of the EU, the Government, Tánaiste and Taoiseach identified security as being a key theme. We have heard people like Kaja Kallas and Ursula von der Leyen say that we are on the precipice of a major ground invasion by Russia into continental Europe and that it is at the point of attacking a NATO member. I see frequently Irish media reports citing the head of German intelligence saying that an attack on Europe is imminent. Belgorod is the most important strategic military pathway into Ukraine for the Russians. It is in the Belgorod oblast and is 80 km from Kharkiv. That is less than 50 miles but in five years of war, the Russians have failed to get down the road to Kharkiv. Yet, we are told that it is on the point of, if you like, invading one of the Baltic states and perhaps expanding that and escalating to arrive in Helsinki and maybe Copenhagen or Stockholm. The Russians have been operating with brigade combat teams. Have the MEPs seen any evidence that the Russians have the hundreds of divisions it would take - the millions of troops in divisions, armies and army groups that would be required - to conduct a conventional land invasion of Europe? Have they seen any evidence to that extent? I do not mean “Dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi”. I mean that I take everything that Commission officials say with a pinch of salt because I do not see any evidence for that. What I do see, and I would be curious to see if the MEPs share this view, is that we are probably going to see a return to Cold War spending on defence and security, which is a pity. It is something that is outside of our control, prompted by Vladimir Putin and his fragile vanity.

The second thing I want to ask relates to drones during the European Union Presidency. In February 2019, a consumer drone caused the closure of Dublin Airport. In 2023, there were six closures of Dublin Airport when small consumer drones about the size of my hand were sighted in the environment of the airport. On 1 December 2025, the LÉ William Butler Yeats confirmed it had sighted several military and industrial grade drones operating in the flight path of aircraft going in and out of Dublin Airport. However, no action was taken. Despite the fact that it observed those for hours, no notification to airmen or women was issued. The airport was not closed, flights were not diverted and, crucially, pilots and air crew were not informed of the threat. On 8 September, at 6,000 ft, a black military drone was observed and reported by an Aer Lingus pilot coming into Dublin Airport and, again, no action was taken, no notification was given to other aircraft, no airspace was closed and the airport continued uninterrupted. Last week, a red military grade drone was spotted at 3,000 ft, 20 m off the left wing or port wing of an Aer Lingus aircraft. Again, no airspace was closed and there was no notification to air personnel. Are the MEPs satisfied when they fly in and out of Ireland that they are safe? Across Europe, when these drones are spotted, they routinely close airspace.

In the 1990s, we had 600 commercial field growers in Ireland. We now have 60. We import 83% of our fruit and vegetables. I think of climate change. I drove from Bilbao through the centre of Spain and down to the south of Portugal. We drove through hundreds of kilometres of burnt, scorched earth. Food security and water security are priorities for us. Is there anything that we can do in Europe to identify and prioritise the real threats to Ireland’s future security?

Senator Chris Andrews

I apologise for missing the opening statements. I had another presentation. Like Senator Clonan, I know that despite our political differences, we have great MEPs representing us and fighting for our city. I want to raise a couple of issues.

The GPO and Moore Street are currently in limbo waiting on Government plans for their future. It is very disappointing that what should be one of the city's most important historic and cultural quarters has been neglected by the State for so long. However, I am hopeful that progress can be made in the future after the planned public consultation. It would be huge missed opportunity if this process does not result in ambitious planning and serious investment in this part of the city. Moore Street and its surroundings can become a catalyst for the regeneration of Dublin's north inner city, while at the same time preserving our republican heritage and creating a vibrant cultural quarter with amenities and housing where it is most desperately needed. As Dublin MEPs, is this an issue they have engaged with? What kind of potential do they see this having for the north inner city?

Separately, I will raise the hardline support for Israel’s genocidal regime by the European People's Party, EPP, of which Fine Gael is a member. Commission President Ursula von der Leyen has, of course, been a staunch ally of Israel and Netanyahu and has been central in supporting Israel’s wars across the Middle East and the genocide in Palestine. Within the Parliament, the EPP routinely blocks any sort of debate, motion or resolution on Palestine, trying to quash any scrutiny of Israel or attempts to recognise the human rights of Palestinians. The chair of the Parliament's delegation to Israel is a member of the EPP and regularly speaks on behalf of that party on this particular issue. Recently, she said in the Parliament:

For us Europeans and for our partner Israel [how do you see Israel as a partner?] international law matters because we have committed ourselves to it, but it's also clear that international law alone does not always provide solutions when dealing with terrorist organisations or violent and oppressive regimes.

This is an absolutely appalling statement, clearly designed to justify Israel's crimes against civilian populations. Likewise, last month she gave political cover to Ben-Gvir's barbaric demand for Israel to kill 40 Palestinians a night and tried to make excuses for why he routinely makes these sickening extremist statements. I would greatly appreciate if Regina Doherty MEP could clarify her position on the European People's Party approach to Palestine and the Israeli state and tell us whether there is any redline on this issue that would prompt Fine Gael to reconsider its membership of the EPP.

Senator Laura Harmon

I echo what other Senators have said. Regardless of some political differences, we are well represented in Europe. I am a Labour Party Senator and we are very proud of our MEP and my colleague Aodhán Ó Ríordáin and the work he is doing to progress a progressive agenda within Europe.

Aodhán mentioned housing and he is on the housing committee in the European Parliament. What does he think the Government needs to do to access more resources for housing? How can it work better with Europe on this? I am seeing figures in Cork, where I am based, showing we have nearly 300 children homeless between counties Cork and Kerry but this is obviously a national issue.

Another issue mentioned was the safe injection facility in Dublin, which has been a great success. This is something other cities, particularly Cork city, are looking to implement as well. Do the MEPs have any advice on how that should be progressed? What barriers might exist?

I watched with great interest the petition that was presented to the European Parliament in relation to assessment of need. I commend the parents who brought that position, particularly Councillor Ali Field. What now needs to happen with that? How can Europe put pressure on our Government to remedy that issue and those waiting lists that are in place?

Another issue that most of us have mentioned is artificial intelligence and workers' rights. How can we safeguard workers' rights here in terms of AI? I am on the Oireachtas artificial intelligence committee and this is a big topic of discussion over the coming months in relation to safeguarding workers' rights with advances in technology. What are MEPs in Europe doing to safeguard their rights?

Europe, as a whole, did not respond strongly enough to the genocide in Palestine and in Gaza. It was also slow to respond. It would have been better to see a more collective approach from the outset. I am very proud of our MEPs who have spoken out on that issue. It is very important we continue to do so and to show our support to other countries experiencing war. I know Ukraine has been mentioned specifically.

An Cathaoirleach

I believe the Senator wishes to share time.

Senator Malcolm Noonan

I welcome our MEPs, particularly my new Green Party colleague, Aodhán Ó Ríordáin. We certainly look forward to the continued merging of the parties over time. I want to take up a point raised by Senator Clonan. It is about the wildfires and heatwaves we have had across Europe. A temperature of 400 C in many of our European cities seems to be the new norm and there is a new acceptance that these are the temperatures we are facing. Over 700,000 ha of land has been burned, literally incinerated, across Europe. There is a food security issue.

There are also challenges around what is happening at a European level on the simplification agenda and what is happening with the potential loss of funding streams like the LIFE multi-annual financial framework, which our MEPs have a responsibility for. I hope they will fight not just Ireland's corner but Europe's corner. If we want to spend money on security, we should spend it on climate and nature. That is where our security lies. Our security lies in our food security and in having clean water, resilient nature and a stable climate. That is something I urge our MEPs to take on board.

My second point relates to Gaza. I share the disappointment expressed yesterday at the UN by Minister, Deputy McEntee, regarding a lack of concerted European action on it. I have deep sympathy for the Irish team, and I know Aodhán is a great follower of the Irish football team, like I am, but I have sympathy for the players and manager. I absolutely do not think they should have been put in the position that they are in. The onus should have been on the FAI. However, the onus should have been at a European level to sanction Israel for its atrocities.

An Cathaoirleach

Before I call on Senator Alice-Mary Higgins, I want to welcome guest of Senator Shane Curley, Ms Divyanshi Jain, along with guest of Senator Joe Conway, Mr. Kevin Rafferty, from Waterford, who is a former colleague but, I presume, a current friend. I thank you all for being here today.

Senator Alice-Mary Higgins

It is good that we have these sessions where we bring the debates happening in Europe here and make the connections clear. There are some really important discussions happening during Ireland's Presidency, so I am going to focus primarily on the MFF, the shift away from overseas development aid in a really worrying way and the move in terms of LIFE funding and other programmes, which are so crucial to small farmers and people doing the actual environmental work across the country and across Europe, and the moving of so much, like that fund for example, into a competitiveness fund.

This competitiveness framing, which we have heard again and again, means when we look at the MFF, it seems concerning that a lot of what remains, which is not getting moved directly into arms and into re-supporting the German automobile industry, which we know is now directly partnering with Israeli military development, for example, is going into competitiveness funds. I am very concerned.

I would like to hear thoughts on how we avoid the capture we have seen in the United States largely, but not solely, by very large billionaire tech advocates who have extreme interest expressed in political control. We see that now attached to things like the Rhine Group in terms of Collison and Draghi being part of that, and it parallels so much of what we have seen in the advocacy around the wealth tax, for example, in the United States, again, where there has been funding, and some of the really concerning messages.

I wonder about the competitiveness narrative because it seems to be mainly benefiting large US multinationals. It is ExxonMobil in the room when we are talking about the omnibus Bills. It seems that we are looking at a level of corporate capture by European institutions that I have not seen, as somebody very passionate about Europe, for years. The public see it too. I worry that this level of corporate capture is diminishing public confidence in Europe. I would like to know what can be done on that. As part of that, a key test for it is where we balance and where we figure out where our priorities are. Where do European values, which we hear referenced very often, actually sit? Where do human rights and international rights sit within European values and where do values sit within the actual decision-making?

There are four specifics I would like to be addressed. One is the trade deals being negotiated at the moment. We have all wrung our hands about the EU-Israel association agreement and how we cannot get the qualified majority or unanimity to do the right thing, but Ireland also sat back on the EU-Morocco deal in relation to Western Sahara, and during this Presidency, we will see negotiations on the EU-Indonesia deal even as there are reports right now from West Papua about the large-scale assassination of civil society members.

I am asking how, within the Parliament, the MEPs plan to push in advance at the point when a majority is needed to make a new deal. This is the point when the balance of power sits with any voice willing to stand up, before the deal is made, for human rights, as well as for the enforcement and meaningful enforcement of human rights in other deals.

Another area I am concerned about, which sadly is something the EPP collectively voted against, is the reference to the United Arab Emirates, UAE, in the amendments on Sudan. I refer to amendments to specifically name its involvement in conflict. We know the EU is also negotiating a trade deal with the UAE.

When does the values bit kick in? Do we talk about it aspirationally afterwards or is it brought through in the discussions about money? Is it about values or is it about a price tag? That is at the core of public confidence in the European Union. It is also at the core of making it something we can be proud of. I look back to my involvement in the Future of Europe process and what the citizens wanted. They want a Europe that is good, not just a Europe that is strong and makes money. I would like to know how that is being translated into these key discussions and the decisions being made on our watch.

An Cathaoirleach

As agreed by the Committee on Parliamentary Privileges and Oversight, the opening statements by Senators are to be five minutes, and the MEPs will then respond. Each of the MEPs now has five minutes to respond. Our Senators will then come back in for the remainder of the debate, with the MEPs concluding, along with the Leas-Chathaoirleach. We will go again in alphabetical order.

Mr. Barry Andrews

I thank all the Senators for their questions. I will get straight into the debate.

Senator Fitzpatrick raised housing. I did not make reference to it in my opening comments because my colleagues are on the housing committee. Before the last election, I published a paper with Housing Europe that contained a list of recommendations about what should happen in housing. I want to make reference to three of them. Two have already been implemented. First, we recommended that there be a housing committee in the European Parliament. That has happened already. Second, we recommended that approved housing bodies be taken off balance sheet for accounting purposes in order that the Government could invest more in affordable housing. That has not been done at this point but it would be extremely welcome. The third point I referred to in the housing report was in relation to leveraging savings within the European system to create capital investment in affordability. That is very much an adopted policy.

On homelessness, I would now like to see some of the recommendations in Commission reports transferred into Council conclusions in November. Reference was made to the housing ministers coming to Dublin in November. The key thing we should be looking out for and pressing for, particularly in other member states, is making sure that the Council conclusions on homelessness are adopted in November. The momentum in Ireland is very strong.

Senator Evanne Ní Chuilinn talked about sport. There is discussion of a sports Act because a lot of EU law on free movement and competition affects the way sports organisations conduct their business but that law is not really tailored to produce positive outcomes in sport. There is a big discussion now about whether there should be specific legislation on this. That is very much worth following.

On the media companies, I totally agree with the Senator. It is very frustrating. The Meta ruling in the United States a couple of weeks ago needs to be transferred into European law. President von der Leyen, in her speech on the state of the Union last week, said there has to be a shift of the burden of proof onto the media companies. That is crucial from a legal point of view because it requires them to demonstrate that their algorithms are safe and puts a positive obligation on them. I want to pay tribute to my former colleague, Frances Fitzgerald, who brought the gender-based violence legislation through the EU. We have seen with the proposed EU keeping internet digital spaces accountable and trustworthy, KIDS, Act that there is some progress being made.

I am conscious of time. Senator Clonan raised the nature of the threat that exists and whether there is a threat from Russia. If you are living in Ireland, it probably feels like there is not; however, if you are living in the Baltic states, where there are considerable Russian populations, it is a different equation, and there is a different threat assessment. I do not think the Baltic states are spending an awful lot of money on defence because they really enjoy doing it. They do not enjoy raising taxes to pay more for defence, they do not enjoy borrowing money to pay for defence, and they do not enjoy cutting social security provisions in order to pay for defence. They do it because they believe there is a real threat. We should respect that and really understand it.

Do I feel safe coming out of Dublin Airport? Yes, I do. I have had conversations with the Dublin Airport Authority. It has a red zone and a black zone and sensors to make sure any drone activity within the airport is dealt with appropriately. There are various agencies involved. Some of the sightings are not correct sightings. What the Senator said was seen at 6,000 ft, which some pilots thought was a military drone, was a light aircraft. Sometimes, you do not want to start shooting out of the sky what you believe to be drones. There is a lot of process that has to be followed to satisfy yourself that you are not creating a further problem.

A number of speakers, including Senator Andrews, raised the question of Gaza. I have been working very hard on this issue as the vice chair of the Palestine delegation. I agree with all of the points that were made.

I am going to run out of time. I will refer to Senator Alice-Mary Higgins's points and Senator Noonan's in my concluding remarks. I thank the Senators.

Ms Regina Doherty

It is a bit like speed dating, so I do not know whether I am going to get to everybody's questions. I very much acknowledge the thanks and the welcome because it really does feel nice.

On housing, I hope Senator Fitzpatrick can see what we are trying to achieve from a European perspective. I believe we will get there. The frustration some of us feel concerns the speed at which we are getting there. We could be doing things much faster. An example initiative is one the UK Government is currently working on. It is to use artificial intelligence in its planning system. It considers its planning permission system too slow, although it is about five times faster than ours. It is using AI to develop a system where, from beginning to end, with human intervention only at the very end before planning permission is granted, everything will be digitised. One could say this is something we could do here in Ireland if we wanted to but if we had legislation and recommendations from the EU, it would force us to deal with the issue. That is really positive.

Homelessness is something we are still seriously grappling with, not just at home. When one goes to other European countries, one sees how stark it is.

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

Absolutely.

Ms Regina Doherty

The housing first approach is something we absolutely have to adopt. The Senator is right to say that, across the EU, Ireland is building far more houses than any other country. That is sometimes why it is difficult to hear foreign colleagues coming here and criticising us when their own record is not great, to be honest. I just wanted to acknowledge that.

I would love to work on European sports policy, so maybe we should have more regular contact by email. I will take that on board.

To answer Senator Clonan’s question, I do feel safe. I am particularly conscious of it flying back and forth. I spend more time on planes these days than I ever did in my whole life before.

With regard to food security, something we could start doing here is supporting our tillage farmers and foodstuff manufacturers to ensure we have an Irish industry that can serve the Irish market. Currently, we do not have that. Our tillage farmers, for whom I am seeking a meeting with the Minister, will say they are being left behind. As the Senator suggested, we do not have horticulturists in the numbers we used to years ago. In a few years, we will have no tillage growers either. That is really worrying.

I genuinely do not know whether there are thousands of soldiers waiting in the Russian wings to attack a European country. However, I do know the fear of very serious defence people in Poland and Finland. When they speak to us, I do not feel they are making it up. Their intelligence is based on the best information they have. Also, each of those countries has had a myriad and growing number of hybrid attacks that may be precursors to what they believe might be the worst-case eventuality. What I do know is that failure to prepare will definitely result in us not being ready. I hope to God an attack never happens, but if it does, solidarity and support for one another's countries has to be felt.

I do not know where to begin and end with Senator Andrews' response, other than to say that my position on Palestine, from an Irish perspective, as an Irish MEP, is very clear. The work that I have done in the Parliament for the past two years has not always been welcomed by some of my EPP colleagues and that is fairly obvious. Like every party, including the Senator's - and it is an awful pity that his own party colleague is not here today to defend her voting record when she votes against Ireland on myriad cases - my grouping in the EU is a broad church. We do not all agree with each other but we do not all agree with each other around this table, collectively, either, and the point of what we try to do is to collectively work to get a consensus. Ireland has led that charge over the past two years. That was clear from the Commission President's speech last Wednesday. She said that it would have been far more preferable if the 12 or 13 European countries now supporting the Irish and Spanish position had done so a number of years ago. Had they done so, we might have actually got a much better outcome. All of us will continue to fight, as I am sure will all Senators, for the Palestinian people to make sure that they do get justice. I will keep doing my part.

In response to Senator Harmon on AI and workers' rights, we have a quality jobs Act coming up in the employment affairs committee in the next number of months. A lot of it will be centred around people's rights as we currently know them. There is a huge opportunity for us to look forward into the future, even in terms of the ones that we already know will be displaced. First, we must make sure that there are jobs that can never be done by AI that have to have human interaction. We need to ensure that we have a programme of works to make sure that we can retrain people. Automated driving, for argument's sake, is something that we know about, as well as administrative works. What are we doing now to make sure that we retrain those people to the new jobs that have not even been created or developed yet? There has to be some sort of protection in law and that is a challenge for myself and Mr. Ó Riordáin in the next couple of months.

Senator Noonan spoke about wildfires across Europe. Again, the President spoke this week about the challenge and the frustrations between industry and climate. Those challenges were laid bare and were clear to see during the summer which is why she is establishing the EU climate insurance pact to make sure that we work to more cooperatively together. I look forward to helping to progress that.

In response to Senator Higgins, I appreciate her frustrations. She is a very passionate woman and she has been passionate on many topics over the years. The other side to the argument that she makes is the industrial accelerator Act. That is in stark contrast to the picture that she laid out, that we are actually putting money into the coffers of American companies. What we are desperately trying to do is to rebalance that competitive agenda, right back to European companies and manufacturers, to make sure that those people who have missed a boat to either China or America in the past five or ten years get supported by EU money to make sure that they are actually here to supply us, not just with food security but with tech security and job security as well. They cannot do that without a level playing field and the accelerator Act is going to do a lot on that in the next couple of months.

Mr. Aodhán Ó Riordáin

I will do my absolute best to respond to Senators. I thank them for their warm comments, which are genuinely appreciated. Housing was mentioned by a number who asked what we have done. We have changed the state aid rules so that individual local authorities now have a greater capacity to borrow. When I met the CEO of Dublin City Council last year, he said that the collective borrowing capacity of the 31 local authorities in Ireland is €118 million. That is it. That is all they could borrow in the morning if they collectively went to try to access funding. When we changed state aid rules, that facilitated local authorities to get more involved in borrowing for housing if they want to. In addition, in terms of short-term lets, they do not need to be worried about EU competition law any more when trying to reduce or curtail the amount of properties that are let out through Airbnb or similar.

We had a very passionate contribution from Senator Ní Chuilinn on TikTok, which is very much appreciated. What is bizarre is that when one is in the European Parliament, one cannot access one's TikTok account because it is actually perceived to be so dangerous but yet we allow children to access it anywhere in the European Union. We need to start considering banning or curtailing platforms before we start considering banning or curtailing children. The emphasis, as Mr. Andrews MEP rightly said, needs to be put back on the companies, corporations and platforms and not on the families or the children, necessarily.

Gaza has been mentioned today and I have spoken about the Israel agreement previously. Similar to militarisation or security, although one does not have to agree - and I do not necessarily agree - one has to appreciate or have a sense or a feeling for where the average German or Austrian MEP is coming from. They have a Holocaust hangover. I do not want to put it in comical terms but that is exactly what they are trying to atone for in their politics. They know what their grandfathers and their great grandfathers did and in supporting Israel, they feel they are atoning for that. It is misguided, wrong and it is hurting Palestinian children. It is killing Palestinian children but that is, unfortunately, what we are trying to change,

On security, the security discussion in Ireland is similar to the abortion discussion. Irish society liked exceptionalism when it came to abortion, as long as we were able to allow 4,000 women a year to go to the UK. We also like our exceptionalism when it comes to security, as long as somebody else will guide and protect us. That is not the kind of attitude that a serious, European, modern nation should take. We should be an awful lot more understanding of those who do have concerns when it comes to bordering Russia and what they may be engaging with.

In terms of sport and gender equality in sport, I appreciate the Senator's leadership on this. I have an eight-year-old girl and she has to choose between soccer and GAA on a Sunday. The eight-year-old boy who lives beside me does not have to make that choice. She is eight. That is something that we must have a proper discussion about. How does gender equality genuinely work its way into every facet of Irish society when those who are trying to access support have those barriers in front of them?

There are about 200 far-right MEPs in the European Parliament and they are being pandered to on climate change, immigration, and violence against women. They will tell us that immigration is the issue when it comes to violence against women. They will tell us that housing is an immigration problem and they are climate change deniers. They used to be on the outskirts. There was a cordon sanitaire, whereby others did not vote for any amendment they put down or engage with them on any level but unfortunately, that centre ground of pro-European politics is under strain more than ever before and Ms Ursula von der Leyen has a lot to answer for when it comes to that. We have seen in European elections in different member states how the far right is gaining traction. That is because other centre right parties have taken on their clothing and normalised their politics.

On drugs and injecting facilities, which was raised by Senator Harmon, the facility in Dublin has been a huge success but the legislation needs to be amended to facilitate not just injection but consumption. If one goes to the injecting facility in Brussels, 90% of the people using it are actually smoking crack cocaine rather than injecting heroin. We need to be much more agile and reflective of the needs of the individual drug user. That mainstream, European knowledge and experience of drug policy or things like drug policy would really benefit us in Ireland. We need decriminalisation of drug users but also a consumption facility in other urban centres.

On the issue of farming and the LIFE project that needs funding to support 44,000 part-time farmers, some farming organisations are not properly representing those who engage in agriculture in Ireland. Sometimes their influence is too much and the nitrates derogation and the extension of it was a wrong turn for Ireland.

An Cathaoirleach

We will go to our final group of Senators before returning to our MEPs. Anois, an Seanadóir Clifford-Lee.

Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee

Our guests are all very welcome. I am delighted to see the three MEPs before us but it is a pity that their fourth colleague is not here today. The work that they do is very important. Dublin is of strategic importance to this country. We are very mindful of the work our MEPs are doing in Europe and we commend them for working together for the betterment of Dublin and Ireland.

There has been a lot of talk about security, border security and fuel security. I am very concerned about food security and supporting our fruit and vegetable growers. Irish horticulture is competing with imported produce, much of which comes from outside of the EU, while Irish growers face rising costs in relation to energy, labour, land, compliance and regulation. We need to support our growers for our own food security. Given that the CAP negotiations are ongoing and entering a critical phase, it is timely that we are here to discuss this particular issue. If Europe wants Irish growers to meet higher environmental, labour and production standards, will the next CAP provide sufficient investment to support them and allow them to remain competitive with imported produce? Can our MEPs use their position with the European Parliament to strongly advocate for growers in Fingal who produce 47% of Ireland's field vegetables, 37% of protected fruit, vegetable and nursery plants, and 14.5% of the national potato output? Our MEPs will agree that the growers of north County Dublin contribute significantly to the food security of this country. If Europe is serious about food security, how do we reconcile that with the economic pressures currently faced by Irish growers?

What happens to European food security when farms in productive areas, like north County Dublin, become economically unviable? Has serious thought been given by the EU to productive agricultural land and whether this should be treated as a strategic food security asset? Should there be a stronger European food security test before productive agricultural land is lost to competing land uses? This is particularly relevant in Fingal due to the housing pressures of Dublin and the pressures farmers come under to give up productive farming land in favour of housing. We need housing but we also need our food security.

Farming is not often seen as an issue for Dublin-based politicians but as I have outlined, we have a significant agricultural industry in Dublin and I appeal to the MEPs not to forget about the farmers of Dublin. I note and congratulate the 2026 young farmer of the year, Shane Halpin, from Lusk, County Dublin. He is the first Dublin farmer to win this award. It is a testament to his work but also to the vibrant and innovative horticulture sector in north county Dublin.

I would also like to touch on Irish language issues. Nobody has mentioned them. We have the largest number of Irish speakers in the country in Dublin so I appeal to all three MEPs to keep that to the forefront of their work in Europe. It is very important to this country. The European institutions do not have the necessary linguistic infrastructure to provide that full equality to the Irish language in the European institutions and those of us who are Irish language speakers are very aware of the pressures on minority languages. Since January 2025, Irish has been an official language of the EU but we still have a road to go in relation to full equality. I appeal to the MEPs to provide the supports, and investment, for Irish-based people to train as linguists to support the equality of the Irish language in the European Union. I thank the MEPs for all the work they do.

An Cathaoirleach

Before I call on the next speaker, I welcome guests of Senator Eileen Flynn from Ardara Community Childcare and the Raphoe Community Playgroup. They are most welcome to Seanad Éireann.

Senator Cathal Byrne

The MEPs are all most welcome to the Chamber today and I thank them very much for coming in. I have a very specific point to raise with them, which I raised it with some of their colleagues when they were before us a few months ago. It is the issue of a united Ireland. A number of years ago the former Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, secured a commitment that when a united Ireland takes place, it would automatically become a member of the EU. It is important there are funds put in place in this EU budget to prepare for that eventuality and I ask that the MEPs raise that matter for us.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

I thank the three MEPs for being here. All three of them stand out in my mind for one thing and that is that they do not always observe the party line and are sometimes willing to speak against their parties' positions on different things.

Ms Regina Doherty

Me?

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

Ms Doherty showed that, particularly when she was Leader of this House.

The work of Mr. Barry Andrews on defence has been second to none and I find it somewhat disturbing it does not get more prominence in this country. It really is important.

I hate to say this to Mr. Ó Ríordáin that, in speaking about housing we found out yesterday that seven out of every ten 18- to 21-year-olds in this country want to get out of the country and it is down to housing. I see massive amounts of housebuilding around Dublin but somehow or other, the message is not getting through that there is work being done.

The ideal behind the European community was a Single Market, that we would all be in the one market and working together. How do the three MEPs feel about the fact the Department of Defence has ceded all responsibility for procurement to one country, namely France, and somehow or other that every tender that goes out, France wins? Where does that sit in the idea of an open, transparent and free market?

There has been much talk in this country over the past few days about an increase in the defence budget of 43%. There has not been an increase of 43%. Ranging from €1.05 billion in 2022, I think, to €1.49 billion in 2026 is not a 43% increase because we are not taking inflation into account and we are not looking at some of the other parameters that feed into that.

As three of the MEPs representing Ireland, which is notionally a neutral country, in the middle of what is the worst geopolitical situation we have had since the Cold War, are they satisfied this country is actually putting forward its best foot on defence? Are we not just playing with words in this country? I admire Mr. Andrews for speaking out on defence and indeed Ms Doherty. It is not a vote-getter in this country. Yet we depend massively on foreign direct investment, FDI, particularly from the United States. If there was a serious incident in this country, do the MEPs agree that there would be a flight of FDI?

Senator Aubrey McCarthy

I thank the three MEPs for being here today. It has probably been covered but I have worked in homelessness for the past number of years. I worked with Mr. Ríordáin and Ms Regina Doherty on that. I have never seen numbers like what we see at the moment. There are 17,527 people in emergency accommodation and I spoke today about 5,659 children. That number does not cover people sleeping in their cars, on couches, etc. I set up an organisation 20 years ago called Tiglin. We work with people that are marginalised and we are seeing the face of homelessness absolutely change. I spoke recently in the House about a young man who came into the Lighthouse Café on Pearse Street for dinner and we got talking. He has a job. He was given notice by his landlord that he was going to be evicted so he had to leave and he is in a tent in the Sandymount region. He is not the typical cohort of homeless people that we would have been used to.

I hope Europe is finally acting. I know it has published its first ever affordable housing plan and proposed a Council recommendation on fighting housing exclusion. In November, Dublin will host the EU Ministers with responsibility for homelessness. I have two questions. First, the Commission's proposal asks every member to report back every five years. Is that frequent enough to hold people to account or does the target need to be stronger? Second, what have the MEPs seen work in other member states that we could not only study but copy and make work here?

Europe is committed to ending homelessness by 2030 and Ireland has adopted that commitment as well. However, I was in this House ten years ago when we were going to do away with homelessness by 2020, so I have seen these targets move.

Senator Lorraine Clifford-Lee

Hear, hear.

An Cathaoirleach

I believe the Senator who might have made that statement is no longer in the House so I cannot direct anybody to-----

Senator Mary Fitzpatrick

I am sure the Cathaoirleach's office will be able to contact him.

An Cathaoirleach

It is up to the Senators. This is a debating Chamber. Senators have the right to interrupt a Senator at any time during a debate and ask the Senator to allow them to make a point while the debate is ongoing. The Senator in possession does not have to give way, does not have to take the question and does not have to answer the question but that is the rule of the House. It is up to Senators. I am not the judge of what people say. I am not the judge of the orders as agreed by the House. Senators have the right to interrupt during a debate and question a Senator on any statement he or she makes. I now bring back in the members of the European Parliament and thank them again for their remarks so far.

Mr. Barry Andrews

I thank everyone for staying for the debate and for their contributions. In response to Senator Higgins, trade happens without trade agreements. We trade with lots of countries without a trade agreement on the basis of WTO rules but trade agreements give us leverage and allow us to introduce chapters to trade agreements, called trade and sustainable development chapters, with which the Senator is very familiar. That leverage allows us to engage with the likes of Indonesia, Mexico, Chile, New Zealand, Australia or any other countries on things like International Labour Organization, ILO conventions and human rights. We can argue about how well that leverage is used but we have no leverage without a trade agreement. All we have is trade on a most-favoured nation WTO basis. The trade and sustainable development chapter relating to New Zealand is state of the art. I would say that New Zealand puts us under more pressure than Ireland puts it under. That is the standard. The Senator asked about what we do as MEPs. MEPs on the trade committee have this role but I also have it as chair of the development committee. We very often provide opinions on trade matters.

As regards corporate capture, the process that has led to this agenda on competitiveness is a recognition that the situation we have with China and the weaponisation of vulnerabilities in our supply chain dependencies have to be addressed. It is not just the question of having a massive trade deficit with China, which is something like €1 billion per day. It is also the danger of these supply chains being weaponised and it also means that we cannot rely on batteries. Electric vehicles are hollowing out European industry and it is naive of us not to address this. That is exactly what Mario Draghi did in his report. He made many recommendations about how we need to address all of these issues. Sadly, only about 15% of the recommendations in the Draghi report from two years ago have been implemented and most of those are in defence. I often hear people say that this is just for the German car industry but we need the German car industry to be successful. The reason the AfD is doing as well as it is across Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Berlin and other parts of Germany is not because of migration. It is because the German economy is not functioning. The German economy has experienced a catastrophe because of all of these things and it is in our towering interest that the German economy thrives as a central part of the EU.

The Senator also raised the question of aid and I am very grateful she did. We have an existential crisis in official development assistance. There are girls who are marrying younger and girls who are not going to school. There is an increase in cholera. There are incredible impacts from the retreat from aid and it is something we have to attach to the Irish Government's priority around values. If values are a serious thing for the Irish Government in the context of this Presidency, it must have resources and budgetary implications, which means the EU budget around official development assistance.

I agree with Senator Clifford-Lee about food security, which is a priority. There are four Irish MEPs on the agriculture committee so we are extremely well represented at parliamentary level. The Senator mentioned costs such as those involving energy, land and compliance. We are pushing an agenda on energy and compliance around trying to bring down energy costs. That is all about taking away our dependence on fossil fuels but also the simplification of European rules.

Senator Cathal Byrne asked about a united Ireland, which is a priority for all of us. Some of us are having a debate this evening in Belfast on the implications of the European connection. There are lots of elements in the Good Friday Agreement and the Windsor Framework that are not properly implemented that would really advance the case and use the EU as a platform in that regard.

I thank Senator Craughwell for his kind remarks. Public procurement in the EU is extremely well-policed. If a company loses a tender because somebody has only one client, it will go to court. I do not believe the Department of Defence is able to walk a circle around public procurement rules at EU level. However, the Senator may have other information.

Senator Gerard P. Craughwell

It does not just apply to defence.

Mr. Barry Andrews

Before Senator McCarthy came in, I made reference to some of the recommendations and findings of a report I did in 2023 on Irish housing issues in a European context. We compared it to some other member states and specific towns. I looked at it with a Dublin focus and I can share the recommendations with the Senator. There are some really excellent ideas, with cost rental being the one that stands out. Once again, I thank the Cathaoirleach for taking this initiative and thank all of my colleagues for their very good engagement on this debate today.

Ms Regina Doherty

To follow on from what Mr. Andrews said on the MFF negotiations and international aid, we have seen how the actions of the US Government have nearly given permission to other European countries to do something similar. Mr. Andrews spoke about how values make up one of the pillars of our Presidency. It is in here where we have an opportunity to show what we really do value. We recognise how many children are still dying from malnutrition in Africa alone and it is on our watch. I understand that CAP, cohesion and defence spending are really important. Everything is really important but there is nothing as intrinsically important as making sure a child does not die from starvation in 2026. That part of the values we purport to hold as Irish citizens and humans has to be shown in the walk we walk, not just the talk we talk. It is true in these negotiations for the MFF budget.

In response to Senator Clifford-Lee, I could not be happier when I saw Shane Halpin, who grows 12 million cucumbers every year. He is a gorgeous young man and a real testament to the wonderful growing and initiatives in north County Dublin. The Senator is right that most of the time, people do not think there are any farmers in Dublin. There are plenty of farmers in Dublin with plenty of voices when they have issues. I wish Shane Halpin well.

Notwithstanding the fact that we are not on an equal level in Europe with regard to the Irish language yet, there are lots of opportunities for Irish-speaking jobs in Europe. Anybody who wants to know about this just has to contact us and we will be happy to help them.

Senator Cathal Byrne is right. Enda did ensure that what would happen with a united Ireland if and when it ever happens - please God in my lifetime - we would obviously immediately join the 27 member states. To that end, we can see PEACEPLUS, which is the co-operation and a very large fund of €1 billion shared between the EU, the UK, the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, will make sure we maintain the relationships, the peace and the growth and development of opportunity and co-operation with each other in the North of the island. That is really important.

I never knew anything about security and defence before I came to the Seanad but I have learned an awful lot in the past two years. The one thing I am really cognisant of is the fact that despite the fact we are increasing our defence spend, which is obvious, it is not at a rate that anybody thinks is really fruitful or is happy about. Regarding the reputation Ireland has because of our laggard approach over the past number of years, there are some quite strong feelings about it. I felt sorry for Kaja Kallas when she was here a couple of weeks ago because she had to field that defence from an Irish perspective when she has no part or act in it. The only defence I can make to colleagues when I am talking to them is that when I was first elected here in 2011, we could not have decided to spend money on defence and security as opposed to keeping the lights on, social insurance and the social welfare budget - all of the things that needed to be done at the time the IMF was here and was controlling our purse strings. I know that since then the country has been very lucky and is very wealthy, but there always seems to be something more pressing on which to spend our money. That is the only way I can balance that. We are not anywhere close to even being in the middle of the class.

We need to move our grades right up to the top.

In response to Senator McCarthy, something that really is a conversation within the European Union at present is homelessness. One of the recommendations from the report we did a number of months ago were around making sure that the housing first policy was enacted in every member state. Second and more importantly - it obviously has not been enacted yet - is to ensure that any child who is living in a rented accommodation cannot be evicted and, therefore, put into homelessness. It would be instructive if the latter was something that came as part of the simplification agenda that we will have after Christmas. As for something about even looking after the welfare of the children to make sure they do not go into poverty and into homelessness, even in my own party, I have considerable rows with people over the €20 billion child guarantee. I vote for it every time. I vote against my own party most of the time. I cannot understand, even from the logic of people who are pro-business and pro-European, those who do not see the value in looking after the future generations today to make sure that they will be the workers and the pension payers of the future. We need to rebalance that conversation. We need to look after our children to make sure that they never get themselves into vulnerable positions and some of the recommendations that we have in the housing report will do that.

Mr. Aodhán Ó Ríordáin

I will touch on as many issues as I possibly can. In terms of trade agreements, they must be on the basis of human rights and international law. They must be on the basis of consumer rights, protecting consumer rights, workers' rights and environmental protections and we need trade agreements in order for the European Union to survive. We are in a very hostile environment with the United States of America openly waging a trade war and a tariff war against us. Agreements are important but they have to be on the basis of what I have said.

On homelessness, there is any amount of things we could do. We have mentioned what the Affordable Housing Act is hoping to do. I would like to see the MFF provide direct funding for housing first for approved housing bodies.

A lot of what we are doing, though, at European level, assumes that we have strong local government. The Minister, I am glad to say, last week accepted that we do not. I would like to see a much stronger mayoralty system in Ireland similar to what we have in Limerick. A directly-elected mayor for Dublin would be something that the Government should move on to facilitate having that civic leadership over a period, which is much more important than a ceremonial mayor because there is an assumption across the European member states when you are talking about housing that the mayors can drive the agenda and that is not the case in Ireland. That is a change that the Government should take on.

As for why we have issues, our tenant rights are not as strong as the mainstream norm in the European member states and when you have weaker tenant rights and greater powers of eviction, you have higher levels of homelessness. It is a bit like collective bargaining. We had the employment committee here in Dublin and they were a bit horrified at the relatively weak collective bargaining rights you have in Ireland, which leads to a higher proportion of workers in low pay. It used be the case that addiction drove people into homelessness. Now homelessness is driving people into addiction. It has gone completely the other way around. In fairness to my colleagues in the European Parliament, we are in different groups and we have different ideologies but we do not have the level of disagreement, I might say, in terms of what MEPs in other member states have when it comes to delivering on homelessness and housing our people. We all can fundamentally agree on that.

In terms of food security, I absolutely agree with what has been said.

Ó thaobh labhairt na Gaeilge de, déanaim mo dhícheall chomh minic agus is féidir liom. Le bheith féaráilte, tá an Feisire Ní Mhurchú chun cinn ó thaobh stádas agus úsáid na Gaeilge de i bParlaimint na hEorpa. Déanaim mo dhícheall chomh minic agus is féidir. Uaireanta, cuireann sé iontas ar mo chomhghleacaithe go bhfuil ár dteanga féin againn in Éirinn. Uaireanta, ceapann siad nach bhfuil i gceist leis an nGaeilge ach an bealach a n-úsáidtear an Béarla in Éirinn. Tá sé go maith gur féidir linn ár dteanga náisiúnta a úsáid.

On a united Ireland, that is a vibrant discussion. Mr. Andrews and I are on a panel this evening in Belfast on what that means for membership of the European Union. In my own case, in the S and D group, what I have facilitated is that the SDLP, even though the North of Ireland is no longer a member of the European Union because the UK has left, now has observer status within my own party group meetings. It is a small gesture but it is important for that facility for Northern politicians to be in and around the European Parliament. We are serious, though, about maximising the rights that Irish citizens have who have a birthright of EU citizenship on the basis that they were born in the North of Ireland and the representation for them and at least observer status for Northern politicians is something we need to take seriously.

On security, to be honest, we need to have a very mature conversation on where Ireland stands in the world. We are no longer the poor man of Europe happy to be in the room. We were 50 years ago. It is not like that any more. We are the sixth highest contributor to the European Union. We are the second highest per capita. We are taken seriously and we need to maximise that seriousness and that leadership when it comes to big existential, difficult and uncomfortable questions on Ireland and our nationhood and the threats that are facing us to the east and to the west. That means that the exceptionalism that we used to wallow in to a degree will be challenged and we have to mature enough to have conversations within our own citizenry about those challenges. As ever, we are always proud to be European. Membership of the European Union has done more for our nationhood and for our citizens than probably any other decision that was made over the past 100 years.

An Cathaoirleach

Before I call on the Leader and then the Leas-Chathaoirleach to respond and conclude the debate, I thank the MEPs for being part of this and all our Senators for their questions and the engagement in the questions and answers session, which is an important part of that.

I welcome to the Gallery guests of Senator McDowell who are from Indiana. They are most welcome here today. All of them are from Indiana, from the business leaders. It is part of 140-strong delegation that is over here from Indiana as part of the education sector, including university leaders, business leaders, political leaders and my good friend, Representative Tim O'Brien, who was involved in establishing the Indiana-Ireland Trade Commission through legislation in Indiana. I will be with them tomorrow morning as part of their ongoing engagement. I actually was having a discussion about the trade commissions with our MEPs and how our MEPs, as Representative O'Brien can clearly see here, are our voice on the ground and our eyes and ears on what is happening at a European level in terms of business, politics, and global diplomacy and security. In many ways, that is the kind of link between Indiana, Ireland and from there on into the European Union. I thank them all for being here this afternoon.

I will now call on the Leader and then the Leas-Chathaoirleach.

Senator Garret Ahearn

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I thank the three MEPs, Barry, Regina and Aodhán, for being here today.

First, I know we did it in this House in June but, considering Barry is here, on behalf of the House, I pass on our condolences to him and his family on David's passing. I am sure the summer was difficult but in time, I am sure Barry will reflect on his career and the service he gave to this country with great pride.

This is the third debate we have had with all MEPs across the country. This one was not as boisterous as some of the others but it has been as insightful. The role they play is so critical to the future of our country and sometimes, from a layperson, it is not often seen. These debates that we have in this House give the public the opportunity to understand the important work that the MEPs do. They themselves do it in their own media performances and getting messages out but when this started in the last term, it showed an important interaction between this House and the work they do in Europe.

No doubt the past couple of months and the next couple of months have been a busy time for these MEPs, but a lot of the work they do is representing Ireland on a global scale, and particularly as we hold the presidency in promoting Ireland. A lot of that is unseen and underground and although they represent different political groups in Europe, their ambition is similar. It is for the betterment of this country and the people on this island.

I wish them well over the next couple of years. They are almost halfway through and elections come quicker than they think. They work extremely hard. I ask them to continue that work into the future because it is at a European level that most of the geopolitical changes we are seeing right across the world are managed.

The work the MEPs do at European level is critical for the future, not just for Ireland or the European Union but the whole country. I wish them well and thank them for being here today and respecting this Chamber. Two former Members are here, which is great, and a former Leader. I wish our MEPs and their families well because it is a difficult job and they are away a lot.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

I thank MEPs Andrews, Doherty and Ó Ríordáin. Certainly, the insight they have shared with us is wonderful. It was an opportune time, especially as we are almost halfway through the European Presidency. They are our voice and advocates in Europe. Their voices very much shape the future of Ireland, and not only Ireland but our citizens. It is really important for them to share their insights of the different committees and workings and to answer the engagement with Senators. I thank all of the Senators who came here and asked their questions. There were an awful lot of thought-provoking questions and answers that arose.

When we think of Europe, we think of peace, reconciliation, economic development, housing and all of the different topics that were covered. There is so much importance between Ireland and Europe. It is important our MEPs are here on an annual basis for us in this House to strengthen our ties with Europe. I wish them the very best into the future and thank them for all they are doing on our behalf. I thank the Cathaoirleach and the Seanad team for having them here today because it is really important to get that message out there, and for the public to realise what is happening in Europe and the role our MEPs have to play. That is really important. I thank all involved and wish them all the best.

An Cathaoirleach

Before I conclude, it would be appropriate, given the themes we are talking about in our Presidency of the European Union, to quote a previous MEP, John Hume, who won the Nobel Peace Prize, who always talked about what he described as a single transferable speech:

Difference is of the essence of humanity. Difference is an accident of birth and it should therefore never be the source of hatred or conflict. The answer to difference is to respect it. Therein lies a most fundamental principle of peace – respect for diversity.

I thank our MEPs for their contributions, their ongoing engagement with the Seanad and their work in Europe on behalf of the citizens of Ireland.

Cuireadh an Seanad ar fionraí ar 3.53 p.m. agus cuireadh tús leis arís ar 5.41 p.m.

Sitting suspended at 3.53 p.m. and resumed at 5.41 p.m.

Seanad Éireann díospóireacht - Wednesday, 23 Sep 2026