Dáil Éireann Debate, Wednesday - 7 October 2026
13. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Minister for Justice, Home Affairs and Migration the total expenditure incurred by the State on criminal legal aid in respect of persons aged under 18 years in each of the years 2023, 2024, 2025 and to date in 2026; and the estimated amount of that expenditure attributable to juveniles who had previously been convicted of one or more criminal offences. [70303/26]
Amharc ar fhreagraThe right to defence is a key legal right in any liberal democracy to make sure individuals can challenge a prosecutor in relation to a particular case. However, how it is delivered is a key issue, and is a key issue at the moment. We have the ongoing battle between the Minister and both solicitors and barristers over this particular issue but we also have a high level of recidivism among young criminals. Does the Minister know how much money we are spending on this at the moment?
Under the Courts Service Act 1998, the management and administration of the courts is a matter for the Courts Service, while the allocation of court business, the scheduling of cases and the management of court lists are matters for the Judiciary, in particular the Presidents of the various courts. It should also be noted that under the Criminal Justice (Legal Aid) Act 1962, it is the courts, through the Judiciary, which are responsible for the granting of legal aid. The Department has no involvement in the granting of free legal aid or the assignment of solicitors. As was outlined, that is done by the judges. These matters are handled entirely by the courts.
I am advised the expenditure of criminal legal aid is not held in such a way as to identify defendants under 18 years or those with previous convictions of one or more criminal offences. As the Minister pointed out, unique identifier codes may help in the future. Therefore, it is not possible to provide the information sought by the Deputy regarding the estimated amount of expenditure attributable to juveniles who had previously been convicted of one or more criminal offences.
It is important to stress in this context that the Government’s approach to tackling youth offending is primarily through youth diversion and early intervention. Yesterday, the Government announced another €11.5 million towards our youth diversion strategy. The youth diversion strategy 2021-2027 emphasises early intervention, prevention, family support and community engagement. That will be continued in the new youth diversion strategy. It targets behavioural change so the cycle of offending by young people is broken, and it operates a graduated response, ranging from diversion to, as a last resort, detention. As offending increases in severity, so too does the criminal justice response to address youth crime. The Government has fulfilled its commitment in the youth justice strategy, and we are now working towards the next youth justice strategy in 2027.
This is the "I do not know coalition Government". I asked a question earlier about security in IPAS centres and the Minister of State said, "I do not know."
I did not say I do not know.
Deputy Lawlor asked the Minister about the nationality of people in prisons and the Minister said, "I do not know." I just asked how much the State is spending in relation to young people receiving free legal aid, and the Minister of State said, "I do not know." How in the name of God is the Government meant to manage the taxpayers' money if Ministers' instinct is to be oblivious to the way they are spending it? For well-paid individuals, to not even be curious as to the answers to any of those questions is absolutely bonkers, and it is at the heart of the reason of the dysfunction of this Government and the waste of taxpayers' money.
There are a lot of issues in relation to this. How does the Government track the recidivism among young people and the amount being spent in terms of free legal aid for young people? How does the Government even manage trying to help those young people stop in their recidivism if the Minister does not even know how much the Government is spending on that? The fact that the Minister is in a battle with the legal profession on this particular issue and the response of the Government is "I do not know" is shocking.
Obviously, we are moving towards a more digital age, and as part of that, across Departments, including the Department of justice, there is a move towards data collection and evidence-based approaches to all our policy in the future. That includes, as a huge part of the youth justice strategy, the unique identifier number that will be rolled out across Departments.
In terms of youth justice, we have seen an extra €11.5 million in this budget. In last year's budget we spent a record amount of €43 million. The Government's approach to tackling youth offending is primarily through youth diversion and early intervention. Our core Exchequer funding and dormant account funding shows how important that is. When we spend money on youth justice and youth diversion, it works. Since 2017, we have seen a decrease of nearly 35% in youth offending despite a correlating 20% increase in the population of that cohort. As part of the next strategy, we are going to target early intervention. We already have the nationwide rollout of youth diversion projects. We have 92 youth diversion projects. We have four targeted youth diversion projects. We have a really sustainable bail supervision project, and all this will be doubled down on in the next youth justice strategy.
The Minister for justice is in a battle with the legal profession at the moment. It is one on which his reputation is dependent upon. We understand the Minister for justice seeks to be the Taoiseach of this country very shortly yet one of the issues the Minister is focusing on is one that the Department does not know. The reason I asked this question is that there are potential solutions to the battle the Minister is in with the legal profession. One potential solution is a public defence office. This has been mooted by other people who say we could actually deliver our legal responsibilities around providing aid to individuals to make sure they have a defence as a defendant, and we could save money on it. As far as I know, there are tens of thousands of people on an annual basis receiving free legal aid. There are tens of millions of euro being spent on it. I will not ask the Minister of State what it is because I expect she will say "I do not know."
It is €123 million.
Has the Minister ever looked at the cost of a public defence office? Are there any feasibility studies? Is there any research happening in the Department in relation to that possible solution?
I thank the Deputy for that, and I will bring that solution back to the Department. We sometimes see type offices across Europe. A lot of European offices come from a civil law basis, where the law is codified, whereas in Ireland, the UK and other commonwealth jurisdictions, we have a common law system. So, it is a little bit tricker to use continental models when we do not come from a continental background.
Regarding criminal legal aid reform and civil legal aid reform, we saw in the budget huge amounts of money going towards civil legal aid. It is a very generous system. The Minister is in negotiations with stakeholders. Stakeholders were involved in putting together the reforms in relation to the criminal legal aid. The matter is now before the courts. We are waiting for a judgment on 13 October. There are continuous negotiations with the Minister and various changes to the system have already been made. Hopefully, things will come to a solution. We saw more solicitors reinstated onto the panel last week. In rural Ireland, more of the criminal solicitors have come back. Obviously, there is still an issue in Dublin but, hopefully, we will see a resolution.
